What's So Great About Density? (Atlanta: find a job, universities, salary)

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I think in everyone's enthusiasm for density and disdain for auto culture posters are forgetting one crucial thing: Atlanta IS a sunbelt city. The city is already so full of concrete it literally creates its own weather. What happens with even more density? Dense living is just not all that desirable at 90 degrees with comparable humidity. Walkability is a great thing, but for me, a native southerner, it's simply too hot nearly half the year to do a heckuva lot of walking. I mean, you take the train in, then walk a couple of blocks to work and by the time you get there, you're absolutely unpresentable. Unless offices are going o provide shower facilities it's going to be intolerably smelly in a lot of places. And I say that as someone who routinely walked to markets and such back home, but as a SAHM I didn't have a boss or co-workers to offend. I can't see convincing women especially that walking around in business attire melting their makeup off is a good thing. I mean we are talking about southern women here where looking good is a major part of the culture.

This is silly. DC and NYC get equally as hot and humid in the summer and many people don't even have AC in NYC. Look it up. Temperatures and humidity hit the upper 80s and 90s in those cities. Weather is no excuse as those women seem to be just fine.

All urban areas have a heat island affect. You being a native souther just means you don't like walking and won't a big acre yard.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Yes, I know NYC and DC. get hot, but neither stays as hot as long as Atlanta. In NYC you don't have a choice but to take the train, so really the question is moot. DC. Is a bit different, but not by much. Actually, I enjoy walking tremendously and do it nearly everyday, just not in a business suit and full hair and makeup.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Yes, I know NYC and DC. get hot, but neither stays as hot as long as Atlanta. In NYC you don't have a choice but to take the train, so really the question is moot. DC. Is a bit different, but not by much. Actually, I enjoy walking tremendously and do it nearly everyday, just not in a business suit and full hair and makeup.

People do it in a "business suit and full hair and makeup" when it is hot in those places also. I've never heard anyone complain about weather being too hot for density. What about New Orleans and Charleston? NOLA is walkable and even HOTTER and MORE hummid LONGER and Charleston is denser and walkable and about equal to Atlanta in weather. I'm from the gulf coast where NOLA sits and Atlanta is comfy compared to the boiler room the air is out there. You can cut the air with a knife.


What about dense South Anerican cities like São Paulo? What about dense cities in South Asia and Austrailia?

[RoslynHolcomb]

One more time, are you really telling me there is a large contingent of folk taking public transportation in NOLA? I've lived in NOLA and Biloxi and nothing is further fom the truth. Nor is it happening in Houston or Dallas, or heck for that matter LA! What do all these cities have in common: It's hot for much of the year. There's a reason why much of the Sunbelt didn't take off until the 50s and 60s: AIR CONDITIONING! Are people walking around in NOLA and Charleston? Sure, tourists! But your average person who actually lives there is not taking public transportation or walking for blocks to work. People walk and bike for exercise, but NOT to work.

As I understand it Sao Paulo is much like NYC, people use transit because there's no other way. I would also guess that like Spain and Portugal they have a siesta culture where not much is going on in the heat of the day. My guess is places in South Asia are much the same.

I don't see Atlanta ever reaching the point where it's public transportation or nothing. If it does the mindset might change, but right now, yes, it's too darned hot, and getting hotter. Much as you and others might hate it, the notion of density in this climate and geography and culture will have to be adapted to suit US. Transplanting some northeastern lifestyle here is likely to be met with skpticism if not outright scorn. The heat is a factor that has tobe taken into consideration, otherwise you're literally whistling Dixie in the wind.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

One more time, are you really telling me there is a large contingent of folk taking public transportation in NOLA? I've lived in NOLA and Biloxi and nothing is further fom the truth. Nor is it happening in Houston or Dallas, or heck for that matter LA! What do all these cities have in common: It's hot for much of the year. There's a reason why much of the Sunbelt didn't take off until the 50s and 60s: AIR CONDITIONING! Are people walking around in NOLA and Charleston? Sure, tourists! But your average person who actually lives there is not taking public transportation or walking for blocks to work. People walk and bike for exercise, but NOT to work.

As I understand it Sao Paulo is much like NYC, people use transit because there's no other way. I would also guess that like Spain and Portugal they have a siesta culture where not much is going on in the heat of the day. My guess is places in South Asia are much the same.

I don't see Atlanta ever reaching the point where it's public transportation or nothing. If it does the mindset might change, but right now, yes, it's too darned hot, and getting hotter. Much as you and others might hate it, the notion of density in this climate and geography and culture will have to be adapted to suit US. Transplanting some northeastern lifestyle here is likely to be met with skpticism if not outright scorn. The heat is a factor that has tobe taken into consideration, otherwise you're literally whistling Dixie in the wind.

NOLA has street cars and buses that people take all the time. I know people who live/lived there that did because the density made it so convient.

LA, Houston and other sunbelt cities don't have much mass transit becuase they came up after the car was cheaper. Not becuase it's too hot to take the train or bus.

People in South Asia and Africa don't have that kind of culture . What are you talking about?

You have to seriously be trolling. Density can't exist because its too hot? Are you overwieght ? Do you wear suits all summer all day? What on earth? This is the city-data troll of the year.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Let's see, you've been here seven months, I've been here four years and you accuse me of trolling. I'm interjecting a crucial component into a serious debate, you've done nothing but attack me. Hmmm, another for my ignore list.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Again, for those who choose to have a sincere discussion, this is the bottom line, people will take public transportation and/or walk in hotter climates if they have no other choice. Walkability for walkability's sake is simply not appealing in a hot city with hills. Could that change? Of course, but only if you make your argument in such a way that respects who and what we are. And no, saying that it's great because that's how it is somewhere else is not going to work. Atlanta will grow more dense, and at some point there will a greater need for public transportation. However density and urbanization are two words that have lityle or no appeal to most southerners.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Again, for those who choose to have a sincere discussion, this is the bottom line, people will take public transportation and/or walk in hotter climates if they have no other choice. Walkability for walkability's sake is simply not appealing in a hot city with hills. Could that change? Of course, but only if you make your argument in such a way that respects who and what we are. And no, saying that it's great because that's how it is somewhere else is not going to work. Atlanta will grow more dense, and at some point there will a greater need for public transportation. However density and urbanization are two words that have lityle or no appeal to most southerners.

Most stations are enclosed or underground so how would heat affect people that much? And I did NOT say that it's public transportation or bust. There should be a MULTITUDE of options you can use at your disposal...driving should NOT be the only one. That's the problem. Even if we build transportation, streets and highways will still exists to this day. Driving isn't and will not go anywhere just because more rail and density is created in and around the core.


There's no wonder the south has the sloppiest, most unhealthy, fat ass people. And places like New York and chicago get up to temperatures in the high 80s and 90s many times in the summer. Heat has little to do with density. It seems you're trying to justify the fact that, you're right, most southerners are rather lazy and don't care to walk. They just want to drive up straight to the place hence the multitude of strip malls here.

Sunbelt or not, a core of a major city should be able to be livable...this is my argument....things that happen in the core should not affect the suburbs other then transportation between the two points...The suburbs can keep the ugly strip malls...I just want a dense core that I can live in.

Atlanta will always still be looked at as a sunbelt city because of it's sprawling suburbs, not because of the current status of it's core.

[Ant131531]

It's so hard to believe the one dimensional view most of you southerners share. It's seems that anything that gets away from this auto-centric lifestyle, you deny almost instantly.

-Want a dense, livable core? No, because I'll make up excuses like "This is a sunbelt city"..."Oh, it gets too hot"......"This goes against what Atlanta was created for"

-Want more public transportation? No, because I'll make up excuses like "This means I'll have to take rail instead of drive in my car"..."Gangbangers might take the train to my suburbs(As if people really want to head to some boring suburbs with nothing going on)..."It means I'll have to walk to places once I get off the train"...."It cost too much and you will never get back the money you paid for it(Because you're supposed to profit directly off public transportation right, not an investment for your city?"

-Want more walkability? "No because you should be able to drive your car to every single little place and be able to simply walk straight to the door"..."no, because it's too hot in the summer to walk"..."I don't want to walk anywhere".

You get the point. Have fun sprawling Atlanta for another 30 miles each way....soon, cities in the mountains will be threatened at this rate. I don't see how much more sustainable this type of development can last.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Another for the ignore list. If you don't like our peaches dude, leave our orchards be. Next!