"The Braves, Cobb County, and the debate over expanding mass transit" (Atlanta: low crime, roughest)

[Shizzles]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I saw that earlier but I believe it's far more likely that the automobile is the tool of choice, for committing the crime and for scouting purposes.

With a vehicle it takes no time at all to cruise through a neighborhood, including the cul-de-sacs. You're in and out in a flash and no one is likely to notice. With the tinted windows that are common today, even if you do happen to see a car driving down your street it's extremely difficult to identify the occupants.

By contrast, a guy on foot is much slower moving and far easier to recognize. He sticks out like a sore thumb.

It's obviously not impossible that some bad guy could ride MARTA to a station and then hoof it over to a residential neighborhood and try to scope it out on foot. However, that takes someone fairly industrious, intrepid and unobtrusive.

But bad guys in a car can cover a vastly greater area in a much shorter time, with almost complete anonymity and without even breaking a sweat. They can go in a group, enjoy a cold beverage and even listen to some tunes while they're at it.

Pretty hard to pull off that kind of reconnaissance on foot.

Yes, I know I'm an interloper here, but I think what Dcredskins is trying to say isn't that mass transit enables poor people to come into rich areas to commit crime, because cars do that too. What he's saying is mass transit enables poor people to live in the suburbs, and bring their culture with them (for better or worse).

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Shizzles

Yes, I know I'm an interloper here, but I think what Dcredskins is trying to say isn't that mass transit enables poor people to come into rich areas to commit crime, because cars do that too. What he's saying is mass transit enables poor people to live in the suburbs, and bring their culture with them (for better or worse).

I'm not sure that's true. In many parts of the city with transit stations, real estate values have gone way up. Poor populations have not grown in those areas and there has been no crime increase attributable to transit. Nearly all the bad guys who do breakins and robberies use automobiles, not mass transit.

[sedimenjerry]

From The Effect of Public Transportation on Crime: An Analysis of Durham’s Bull City Connector


"The theoretical predictions of the effect of public transportation on crime have been tested empirically with mixed results. Plano (1993) found no significant relationship between proximity to rail transit stations and crime using data from the opening of stations in the Baltimore Metro system. Block and Block (2000) found a significant positive relationship between proximity to subway stations and street robberies in both the Bronx borough of New York City and the Northeast Side of Chicago. Liggett et al. (2003) found that the Green Line light rail transit system in Los Angeles had no effect on the overall levels of crime and the spatial distribution of crime in Los Angeles. Ihlandfeldt (2003) analyzed Atlanta’s MARTA system to find that the addition of rail transit stations resulted in the increase of crime in the center city, but did not affect crime levels in the outer limits of the city. Denver Regional Transportation District (2006) analyzed crime patterns near stations of the Central Corridor light rail transit line in Denver and found no evidence of an increase in crime as a result of its inception. SANDAG (2009) studied the expansion of the Green Line transit system in San Diego and found that both crime rates and distribution of crime were unaffected by the expansion of the public transportation system, as well as that residents did not feel more or less safe as a result of the expansion. Taken together, these studies indicate variation in the effects of public transportation, suggesting that specific cities respond differently to its expansion. Additionally, the rare statistical significance suggests that the magnitude of the effect of public transportation on crime is likely small."

Can we stop speculating now.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

Can we stop speculating now.

Clear as mud. Thanks!

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by dcredskins

Criminals are most likely to commit crimes in neighborhoods that they live in. If poor people don't live in your neighborhood then your chances of being a victim go down drastically. Compare violent crime rates in downtown, east point, college park, west end, and buckhead, brookhaven, and decatur. All are car accessible and yet the differences in violent crime are drastic. Mass transit access makes an area more likely to have poor people in it. Avoid mass transit, decrease the attractiveness of your community to lower class residents. Pretty simple.

No, they will steal a car and use it to commit crimes. This idea that transit attracts lower income people is crazy, look at all the areas along the east MARTA line that is seeing new investment, where the lower incomes are being pushed out to where?... The suburbs and your local area.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by dcredskins

I think they prefer cars in locations near their neighborhood and being on foot. In fact, most of the murders are probably committed by people who run away. Again, at locations close to their homes. It's why Brookhaven doesn't have the same murder rate as SW Atlanta.

If criminals prefer cars to drive to rich areas then why are the poorest parts of the city the ones with the most crime?

Or could it be the income levels, drug market, etc? Brookhavenites just drive to SWAT to buy their drugs.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by cqholt

No, they will steal a car and use it to commit crimes. This idea that transit attracts lower income people is crazy, look at all the areas along the east MARTA line that is seeing new investment, where the lower incomes are being pushed out to where?... The suburbs and your local area.

I agree with this. Transit does not necessarily lead to crime. The simple fact is that MARTA rail, when it was implemented, went to largely low-income areas that already had high crime rates, especially along the east-west line and the south line. MARTA didn't cause the crime or draw the low-income elements (criminal or not) in; they were already there.

All of that aside, there are many of us in Cobb who would welcome rail, whether run by MARTA or another agency, particularly in Cumberland, Smyrna, within the city limits of Marietta and at KSU.

[glovenyc]

Originally Posted by evannole

I agree with this. Transit does not necessarily lead to crime. The simple fact is that MARTA rail, when it was implemented, went to largely low-income areas that already had high crime rates, especially along the east-west line and the south line. MARTA didn't cause the crime or draw the low-income elements (criminal or not) in; they were already there.

All of that aside, there are many of us in Cobb who would welcome rail, whether run by MARTA or another agency, particularly in Cumberland, Smyrna, within the city limits of Marietta and at KSU.

^^^Exactly what he said.

[shunketsu]

Originally Posted by evannole

All of that aside, there are many of us in Cobb who would welcome rail, whether run by MARTA or another agency, particularly in Cumberland, Smyrna, within the city limits of Marietta and at KSU.

I'm drooling over the possibility of that being true

[ttownfeen]

Seriously, it's not hard. A line along the existing CSX r.o.w with stations at Acworth Park-and-Ride, KSU Main campus, Town Center Mall, Marietta Square, KSU Marietta/Lockheed, Smyrna, Vinings, Bolton and Blandtown (only the last two not being in Cobb County) that connects to the currently-useless Green Line at Bankhead would serve the busy parts of the county that want MARTA and avoid East and West Cobb, the parts of the county that do not.