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And yes, absolutely I am concerned with the huge income inequality issue, but I tend to believe government policies have been more to blame for that, than necessarily lack of government policies.
Actually, neither are to "blame": "Blame", specifically, rests in the hearts and minds of those people - human beings - who believe it is moral to place their own comfort over the basic needs of others. At the heart of the matter, it isn't a bureaucracy problem - it's a moral values problem. Indeed, the bureaucracy that exists exists as a bulwark against the detrimental effect of the self-ratifying self-centeredness in such flamboyant display on the American stage these days.
So the question for this election boils down to how best to remedy American values, and if the answer is nothing will do that this time around, then the election boils down how to best preclude plunging American values even deeper into the abyss of self-ratifying self-centeredness. Sometimes status quo is the best you can reasonably hope for, especially when the alternative is such a draconian example of egocentrism as was on parade last week.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
Trump is probably going to win Georgia
But he may not. That's the point. It is remarkable that here we are in July and he's only "probably" going to win Georgia. Clinton has a far far better chance of winning Georgia than any third party candidate has ever had a chance to win a Presidential election, yet you went on and on earlier about how vital that possibility was. Seems to me that you're either deliberately blinding yourself to realities or you're just playing games.
there is an undercurrent to this movement that is really dangerous indeed, and it's getting stronger. and people aren't doing anything to stop it and aren't taking it seriously at all. i'm very concerned that in 10-15 years we're going to have radical christian terrorists.
Like you said earlier in your post, they're not Christian, they're pseudo-Christian. They use Christianity as a rationalization for their self-serving policy perspectives, many of which are explicitly counter to Jesus' most critical teachings. The Republican Party has been alienating real Christians for decades, elevating greed to a virtue despite Christian teachings to the contrary. They play a cynical game with easier-to-rationalize matters such as LGBTQ rights (which smells to me like Nazi consideration of the Jewish problem) but the core of the matter boils down to money for today's GOP, not actual Christian values.
And if you expected a bounce from the DNC. good luck, all we're going to hear about this week are the wikileaks, DNC corruption and how the system was rigged, just like Bernie and Trump claimed!
You Dems should have stuck with Bernie! At least he's honest.
Last edited by flamadiddle; 07-25-2016 at 06:19 AM..
Incorrect. Counter-productive for the best interests of our country, from any shade of progressive perspective, and perhaps from any anti-reactionary shade of perspective.
Incorrect, yourself. It is in the best interests of our country to have more and different voices permanently seated at the political table. And in the best interests of our country to demand better major party candidates, via that same mechanism. You do not have to necessarily vote for whomever the party of your general leaning puts up each particular cycle. That is and should be a choice.
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No one elected official can do anything themselves, so voting for the individual is myopic and quite frankly pretty naive. People have to be smarter than that to make their vote count. They need to consider how to help shape the government so it can best serve the interests of the nation - it does no one any good if they cannot see the forest for the trees.
Which is exactly, precisely why I'm supporting Johnson. Finally, we could have non-partisan executive government, that can work with both parties in congress without all the partisan and political nonsense that cripples everything, and accepting only the best legislation of either, rejecting the worst of both.
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I'm okay with you being tired of it. The harm from people of good conscience throwing away their vote is more important.
There are only 2 ways to throw your vote away. 1) Not vote, 2) Not vote for your preferred candidate.
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No. They wouldn't. That's the point. In order for a third party candidate to have a legitimate chance to win, a lot of groundwork needs to happen years beforehand, including the third party having clear majorities of voters in at least a dozen states. Without that we can safely say that there is no chance whatsoever that the third party candidate could win, no matter how much people beat their chests and stamp their feet to the contrary.
Well I am that very groundwork. We are the groundwork. Vote Libertarian (or Green), change the system. Gary is very unlikely to win in this cycle, but his party could be elevated to major status, which is huge.
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It took the Republican Party most of a decade to grow from an insurgency into a legitimate option at the national level, even winning the Speakership in 1856, just two years after the establishment of the party. Just four years later the party won the Presidency.
Yeah, because people ignored the naysayers like yourself, insisting that only the established establishment is ever a valid option to vote for.
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Pay close attention to the necessary foundations of legitimacy: Significant numbers of representatives elected to Congress.
Which is only going to happen when a party achieves a major status, and all the perks and attention that go along with that. People in the mass populace are not even aware of the third parties, but they could be if they're allowed in the presidential debate. It's not going to start at the groundswell level, in this case.
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"I want my fringe beliefs to prevail today!"
Do you have fringe beliefs? I don't.
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Sorry, but that's not how life works in a society with other people.
Sure, I'll take your having to resort to empty, childish condescension like that, as an indicator that I'm onto something with my points, here. Great.
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That's like saying that it would be nice to lose weight without exercising or eating right.
No, it's not.
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Seems to me that you're either deliberately blinding yourself to realities or you're just playing games.
Seems to me that you're conveniently ignoring the key points I made about Clinton and Georgia and this election. Once again, there is a basically 0% chance that Hillary will win the election because Georgia went blue, or lose because it didn't. It matters not towards that end. Hillary can entirely lose the deep south as expected, and even some rust belt states like PA, and win the election easily.
Even if Georgia is or was important to the election (which it isn't). I don't like Hillary. I want her to beat Trump, but I am going to vote for the candidate for president that I want to be the president, because that is a higher priority for me. If it isn't for you, great. We're different people.
And if you expected a bounce from the DNC. good luck, all we're going to hear about this week are the wikileaks, DNC corruption and how the system was rigged, just like Bernie and Trump claimed!
You Dems should have stuck with Bernie! At least he's honest.
First off polls just release can't be from the wikileaks it's too earlier, Trump had a convention bounce
2nd off yes Hilary is going to have a convention bounce we been through this when trump got the nob he had a bounce as soon Hilary got the nob she bounce.
3rd No, Sanders even speaking at the conversation and going to continue to Endorse Hilary
Also high key............Now There questions around Trump and the Russians,
Generally Foreign leaders have very very very negative things to say about Trump,
Clinton is generally honest, she hardly lies and trump literally lies all the time
Hillary has like 2 scandals her background trump literally has over 11
Hillary actually accomplish thing in politics, Trump is fear monger about thing that don't even exist and not even possible, like making Mexico build a wall, And Banning a Religion of people.
Also high key
Trump is good at Framming, Trump and Sanders don't remotely have the same message, And All Sanders criticism on Hilary reflects far worst on Trump.
Ad nauseam is argument that been said to point it's tiresome, Talking Point are short repeating lines "Crooked Hilary" In politics it's tact to repeat lines to frame and hope it catch on, weather it's true or not. All fact checkers say Trump lies left and Right. He lies far more than Hilary and has way sketchy background then Hilary.
Hilary is not Charge, or have been found guilty of anything.
Trump has been found guilty of multiple case discrimination, Trust Laws, Scam.
Also in general Trump held to higher standard like if Hilary told a crowed to fight people at a rally, Or she's rooting for the recession to hurt Americans, or personal attacks against opponent spouse her Career would been over.
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A talking point in debate or discourse is a succinct statement designed to support persuasively one side taken on an issue.
Such statements can either be free standing or created as retorts to the opposition's talking points and are frequently used in public relations, particularly in areas heavy in debate such as politics and marketing.
A political think tank will strategize the most effective informational attack on a target topic and launch talking points from media personalities to saturate discourse in order to frame a debate in their favor, standardizing the responses of sympathizers to their unique cause.
When used politically in this way, the typical purpose of a talking point is to propagandize, specifically using the technique of argumentum ad nauseam, i.e. continuous repetition within media outlets until accepted as fact.
1. Hilary Hardly lies
2. Hilary is found guilty of nothing
3. Hilary factually has a voting record similar to Sander
3. All Trump criticism of Hilary is actually worst upon and self.
Trump is far more Charismatic then Hilary.
Trump has success play the game politics so well "crooked Hillary" and "Hilary lying" for months that he actually got people thinking Hilary is a habitual liar. And ignore fact checkers, ignore his far more Questionable background, paint his self as reformer and exaggerate things Hilary isn't even found of guilty.
"You Dems should have stuck with Bernie! At least he's honest." That's Irony Hilary is generally Honest, the only person who's a habitual liar is Trump, and he's successful at framing her as dishonest.
And if you expected a bounce from the DNC. good luck, all we're going to hear about this week are the wikileaks, DNC corruption and how the system was rigged, just like Bernie and Trump claimed!
You Dems should have stuck with Bernie! At least he's honest.
The convention always gives the candidate a bounce. It did for Trump, and it will for Clinton.
If you want someone who tells the truth, Trump is the worst choice. The guy just spews whatever he thinks will get people to vote for him, the more sensationalist and wrong, the better. Then he will take the opposite stance the next day.
However, since Georgia is not a swing state, the best thing you can do with your vote this year is Gary Johnson. Even if you don't agree with all his policies.
Since the states are winner take all and it is not close in most states, voting Dem or GOP will not make a difference out side of the swing states. However, even if Johnson does not win the whole state each vote for him helps make a real third party more of a possibility. And not just by increased coverage of their higher polling but because at 5% they qualify for federal election funds, and at 15% they get to be on the debate stage.
They have major policy differences on Education, Healthcare, Marijuana legalization, Glass-Steagall, and Wall Street.
Also, why do you care so much about who I promote? If Hillary is such a great candidate, she could win on her own merit despite her competition. If she loses, it's her own fault. Stop treating her like a child that must have everything given to her. She acted the same way in 2008 before Obama gave her a position in the white house. Also stop trying to push the email scandal under the rug. The Democratic Committee were plotting against a candidate in their own party. That's the exact opposite of Democracy. There is no excuse for what the Democrats did, and I expect major anger at the convention.
This is getting silly
Most of stuff in link you provide they agreed on disproving your on point.
"there aren't major" differences. They have different views to attain the same goals, oppose to a Republicans who completely disagree with their goals..... that's the point of a party. They can't be in the same Party and have "major policy differences" They can only have slight differences and and difference here and there.
So Sanders supporters not supporting Hilary would be setting back Sanders Agenda....... due to the fact there overall agenda is Similar. A progressive not Supporting Hilary you risking putting in a Republican with the complete opposite Agenda as Sanders. It's better talking that (90%) similar then risking leting the (-90%) win.
Republicans want less gov in Heathcare, Sanders and Clinton as progressive Democrats both want believe that Government should play role low rates and covering people. They have different views on how to that should work but they have same larger agenda.
Sanders and Clinton both want to lower Student tuition and make collage more affordable. They are little different, but in comparison to Republicans who have no plan Sanders and Clinton agenda is similar.
They both believe in Progressive Taxing, rise Taxes on People like Trump.
Hilary is not Sanders Enemy Trump is....
You can't counter this, Hilary and Sanders voted 93% the Same in the Senate. And both Overwhelmingly voted the same as other Democrats.
This means when push came to shove, when they was activity governing...... they was similar.
The point of criticizing some talking money from Wall Street is that Wall Street is influencing their votes, Their's no proof Hilary is, but she is that funny cause then she played them and votes just like Sanders.
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The Democratic Committee were plotting against a candidate in their own party. That's the exact opposite of Democracy.
So your Telling this did not happen in the Republican party to a far more extreme?
The point is, your so much more upset at Democrats and making a big deal of this more than Republicans who publicly was denounce Trump. That you hate Hilary so much you want this to be a bigger deal then that freak show of the Republican Primaries.
The Difference is if their was bias for Democrats was for the Persons who was already winning, Hilary was already far ahead on Sanders. Reality Check she progressive and has a lot good as a Senate.
Oppose to Republicans who against the person who was actually winning.
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Also stop trying to push the email scandal under the rug.
So you think something like having a private email Sever, something they found not even worth of convicting for anything.
Is even remotely in this solar system comparable to this?
Most of stuff in link you provide they agreed on disproving your on point.
"there aren't major" differences. They have different views to attain the same goals, oppose to a Republicans who completely disagree with them goals..... that's a point of a party. They can't be in the same Party and have "major policy differences" They can only have slight differences and and difference here and there.
So Sanders supporters not supporting Hilary would be setting back Sanders Agenda....... due to the fact there overall agenda is Similar. A progressive not Supporting Hilary you risking putting in a Republican with the complete opposite Agenda as Sanders.
Republicans want less gov in Heathcare, Sanders and Clinton as progressive Democrats both want believe that Government should play role low rates and covering people. They have different views on how to that should work but they have same larger agenda.
Sanders and Clinton both want to lower Student tuition and make collage more affordable. They are little different, but in comparison to Republicans who have no plan Sanders and Clinton agenda is similar.
They both believe in Progressive Taxing, rise Taxes on People like Trump.
Hilary is not Sanders Enemy Trump is....
You can't counter this, Hilary and Sanders voted 93% the Same in the Senate. And both Overwhelmingly voted the same as other Democrats.
This means when push came to shove, when they was activity governing...... they was similar.
The point of criticizing some talking money from Wall Street is that Wall Street is influencing their votes, Their's no proof Hilary is, but she is that funny cause then she played them and votes just like Sanders.
So your Telling this did not happen in the Republican party to a far more extreme?
The point is, your so much more upset at Democrats and making a big deal of this more than Republicans who publicly was denounce Trump. That you hate Hilary so much you want this to be a bigger deal then that freak show of the Republican Primaries.
The Difference is if their was bias for Democrats was for the Persons who was already winning, Hilary was already far ahead on Sanders. Reality Check she progressive and has a lot good as a Senate.
Oppose to Republicans who against the person who was actually winning.
So you think something like having a private email Sever, something they found not even worth of convicting for anything.
Is even remotely in this solar system comparable to this?
The tone in this quote is what I'm talking about this a deep rooted hated, that basically you want to hate her.
You literally say that to all politician, politicians don't run to lose.
Meanwhile She run against guy extremely narcissistic, and have temper tantrum attacking reporters and candidates.
You seriously can't leave the republicans out of this. This is a in party issue, and honestly I couldn't care less what the republicans are doing because I'm a progressive, not a conservative. Trump is coming close to Hillary in many swing states, and you cant blame that on third parties who haven't even gotten proper media coverage. Hillary is simply a bad candidate. Republicans are going to have a field day running attack ads on her on the DNC scandal (Which is warranted) , the email scandal (Also warranted), her actions as Secretary of State (She didn't always make the best decisions), and even Benghazi (Which she had little to do with, but Republicans have already convinced their voter base that she was guilty). Hillary doesn't have this election in the bag, and I won't feel sorry for her if she loses. Yes, Trump is a complete imbecile, but he isn't going to destroy our country. The republican congress will make most of the decisions and they will influence the Supreme Court pick (if they keep ignoring Obama's pick), but the democrats will gain the majority back and can simply filibuster until they get a pick they agree on. We can use this election as a boost to more competent third parties that'll actually get things done.
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