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Yes because LA has way more people so rush hour traffic is worse, but it is easier moving around LA than Atlanta in non rush hour traffic because LA has a very good road and freeway network.
I mean every time I go to LA (I used to go every Summer and stay there for a month) whether it be Uber or rental, the traffic was bad at all times of the day (not just rush hour).
Like I said, I agree, Seattle is definitely isolated, way in the northwest. But I certainly felt pretty isolated in Atlanta, as well. None of the largest 20 US metros are anywhere remotely near Atlanta. You have to go down the list to #22 (Charlotte) before one is within 5 hours away (and just barely).
And, the same is true of Seattle. Yes, Atlanta has lots of small cities within a few hours of it, scattered all around the southeast, but you'd never really have any reason to go to most of them if you lived in Atlanta, being superior to them all.
Chicago is maybe a little less isolated, because it's the major Amtrak hub, in addition to an airport and interstate hub. It's fairly near Detroit, the 14th largest metro, and Minneapolis, the 16th.
And yes, the northeast is the one quadrant of the country that's not isolated. Over 50 million people live in the very well-connected Washington to Boston corridor, and that's projected to soon reach 60 million.
Whether Atlanta is more isolated or not than Seattle is debatable, but the main relevant point is that Atlanta is isolated. The fact that it's only a 2.5 hour drive to Montgomery, and even smaller southern towns, is pretty irrelevant to most ATLiens.
I don't think Atlanta is isolated at all. I drove to Chicago, New Orleans, Orlando, Charlotte, and Nashville. Some of the cities several times. Quick flights to NYC, Miami, Dallas, Boston, Philly, DC, and Houston. And the epicenter of the population will continually shift towards the south.
I mean every time I go to LA (I used to go every Summer and stay there for a month) whether it be Uber or rental, the traffic was bad at all times of the day (not just rush hour).
Well you visited when all the other tourists like you were there. Summer is definitely the busiest traffic time for Greater LA. You'd notice less traffic during other seasons or if you were in the Inland Empire or Ventura County.
The Atlanta area makes up for less bumper to bumper traffic by having long travel times for relative to mile distance due to the road design. Outside of heavy traffic in LA, if your destination is 10 miles from you, then it will take you anywhere from 13 to 25 minutes to get there at most because of the infrastructure setup. In Atlanta outside heavy traffic, it will take at minimum 20 min and up to 45 min. The difference is very noticeable if you spend a significant amount of time in both places.
Well you visited when all the other tourists like you were there. Summer is definitely the busiest traffic time for Greater LA. You'd notice less traffic during other seasons or if you were in the Inland Empire or Ventura County.
The Atlanta area makes up for less bumper to bumper traffic by having long travel times for relative to mile distance due to the road design. Outside of heavy traffic in LA, if your destination is 10 miles from you, then it will take you anywhere from 13 to 25 minutes to get there at most because of the infrastructure setup. In Atlanta outside heavy traffic, it will take at minimum 20 min and up to 45 min. The difference is very noticeable if you spend a significant amount of time in both places.
Atlanta's road infrastructure is much less developed than LA, but you also have to take into account that Atlantans have farther to travel for work and for daily activities like shopping and restaurants.
Also, living in LA I can assure you that no one expects to go 10 miles in 13 minutes outside of maybe 3am. It's 3pm right now and Google says that it would take me 33 minutes to get to Beverly Hills which is 11 miles away. That timeline would make more sense in the suburbs although you still expect traffic and account for it.
Atlanta's road infrastructure is much less developed than LA, but you also have to take into account that Atlantans have farther to travel for work and for daily activities like shopping and restaurants.
Also, living in LA I can assure you that no one expects to go 10 miles in 13 minutes outside of maybe 3am. It's 3pm right now and Google says that it would take me 33 minutes to get to Beverly Hills which is 11 miles away. That timeline would make more sense in the suburbs although you still expect traffic and account for it.
For your first paragraph, that is exactly why Atlantans have to travel far because the road infrastructure is not good. I said this already so we're agreeing there.
As for your example, it was 3pm on a Saturday which is the heaviest traffic time for the weekend (12p to 7p on Sat in any metro), plus you put your destination as BH, one of the most popular/visited locations in LA. Also your travel time for 11 miles isnt too far off from my estimate considering you said it would take 33 minutes at 3p to go 11 miles and for 10 miles I said the limit was around 25 minutes.
What would that have been in Atlanta? Did you check for the same time? So even with you choosing a high traffic zone in a high traffic time, the estimate remains close to what I said. Do the same for Atlanta going to Buckhead from 11 miles away at 3p on a Saturday to make an accurate comparison. Or choose random places away from freeways to see (or do the avoid highways option) and do it in lower traffic times. Thats what I did and how I got the minutes.
As for the suburbs, the Inland Empire and Ventura County would be a lot faster, which I mentioned also. OC would depend on where in OC you're going but they also have a bunch of high speed boulevards with sensored traffic lights to go along with the freeways that speed things up. Sidenote: one of the things I loved about living in South OC. you come up to a light and it'll change within 10-30 seconds vs having to wait whole cycles in Metro Atlanta, although this is getting better.
Edit: also your travel time followed my traffic formula. when I had to go to the office 5 days a week I noticed the minutes it took was 3x the number of miles (so office was 10 miles away but took 30 min to get there). I noticed you can use this same rule during higher traffic times all over the metro without fail.
But I dont think you disproved my point, which is travel time during lower traffic times are quicker in LA than Atlanta due to infrastructure. I do see Atlanta doing a better job with more sidewalks (ped experience) and some cities are building road bypasses like Winder or the one in Lithonia. Those make a difference.
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Originally Posted by urbancuriosity
I have driven on the 405 freeway at 2am near LAX. The traffic was backed up even then.
Because there was either an accident or construction. It wasnt backed up at that time of day due to simple traffic, even near LAX (where was much construction near the 405 until recently with the rail expansion).
For your first paragraph, that is exactly why Atlantans have to travel far because the road infrastructure is not good. I said this already so we're agreeing there.
As for your example, it was 3pm on a Saturday which is the heaviest traffic time for the weekend (12p to 7p on Sat in any metro), plus you put your destination as BH, one of the most popular/visited locations in LA. Also your travel time for 11 miles isnt too far off from my estimate considering you said it would take 33 minutes at 3p to go 11 miles and for 10 miles I said the limit was around 25 minutes.
What would that have been in Atlanta? Did you check for the same time? So even with you choosing a high traffic zone in a high traffic time, the estimate remains close to what I said. Do the same for Atlanta going to Buckhead from 11 miles away at 3p on a Saturday to make an accurate comparison. Or choose random places away from freeways to see (or do the avoid highways option) and do it in lower traffic times. Thats what I did and how I got the minutes.
As for the suburbs, the Inland Empire and Ventura County would be a lot faster, which I mentioned also. OC would depend on where in OC you're going but they also have a bunch of high speed boulevards with sensored traffic lights to go along with the freeways that speed things up. Sidenote: one of the things I loved about living in South OC. you come up to a light and it'll change within 10-30 seconds vs having to wait whole cycles in Metro Atlanta, although this is getting better.
Edit: also your travel time followed my traffic formula. when I had to go to the office 5 days a week I noticed the minutes it took was 3x the number of miles (so office was 10 miles away but took 30 min to get there). I noticed you can use this same rule during higher traffic times all over the metro without fail.
But I dont think you disproved my point, which is travel time during lower traffic times are quicker in LA than Atlanta due to infrastructure. I do see Atlanta doing a better job with more sidewalks (ped experience) and some cities are building road bypasses like Winder or the one in Lithonia. Those make a difference.
Because there was either an accident or construction. It wasnt backed up at that time of day due to simple traffic, even near LAX (where was much construction near the 405 until recently with the rail expansion).
LA's traffic is really bad. I lived a total of 13 months in LA (total) and many years in Atlanta but of those 13 months, it's incomparable, LA is much worse. In Atlanta, most of the traffic is due to road construction or an accident. In LA, it was just sheer volume of cars even though there was no accident or construction.
LA's traffic is really bad. I lived a total of 13 months in LA (total) and many years in Atlanta but of those 13 months, it's incomparable, LA is much worse. In Atlanta, most of the traffic is due to road construction or an accident. In LA, it was just sheer volume of cars even though there was no accident or construction.
Yes during high traffic times LA is much worse due to sheer volume. But when traffic is flowing or you need alternate routes that get you some place in about the same amount of time, LA is far better. If you're taking city streets to get someplace then LA is far better. The suburb to suburb movement is much easier. We have to remember how large SoCal is. If you're anywhere south of the 91 or east of the 605, the traffic situation is not bad at all outside a free segments like the 91 near Corona.
For example, Snellville to Buford right now is 20 miles but 42 minutes. Fontana to Pomona right now is 22 miles but 30 minutes. Compton to Anaheim is 21 miles but 26 minutes. Duluth to Roswell is 14 miles but 30 minutes. Granted it is about 2p in CA and 5p in GA, but on a Sunday the traffic won't be that much different and it's all green conditions in both places. This is what I mean when I say if traffic is flowing, it will take take almost double the amount of time to get somewhere with similar miles in greater ATL vs LA. I know because I've been driving in both places for several years.
But like I said it's getting better in Atlanta due to the bypass roads some cities have made, plus expansions of others. An outer perimeter will help but at this point the best thing would be upgrading the current roads, especially the two-lane country ones. Those should at least have medians for safety and sidewalks on one side. Maybe a place for people's trashcan on trash day to not be literally on the road but that might be asking for too much.
For your first paragraph, that is exactly why Atlantans have to travel far because the road infrastructure is not good. I said this already so we're agreeing there.
As for your example, it was 3pm on a Saturday which is the heaviest traffic time for the weekend (12p to 7p on Sat in any metro), plus you put your destination as BH, one of the most popular/visited locations in LA. Also your travel time for 11 miles isnt too far off from my estimate considering you said it would take 33 minutes at 3p to go 11 miles and for 10 miles I said the limit was around 25 minutes.
Even now on a Sunday at 1:53pm it takes 32 minutes.
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What would that have been in Atlanta? Did you check for the same time? So even with you choosing a high traffic zone in a high traffic time, the estimate remains close to what I said. Do the same for Atlanta going to Buckhead from 11 miles away at 3p on a Saturday to make an accurate comparison. Or choose random places away from freeways to see (or do the avoid highways option) and do it in lower traffic times. Thats what I did and how I got the minutes.
I don't know Atlanta well enough to be reasonable. Would you be willing to share examples?
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But I dont think you disproved my point, which is travel time during lower traffic times are quicker in LA than Atlanta due to infrastructure. I do see Atlanta doing a better job with more sidewalks (ped experience) and some cities are building road bypasses like Winder or the one in Lithonia. Those make a difference.
Our takes are slightly different. I agree with you about the infrastructure, but I think that the longer times in Atlanta are exacerbated by being low density and having to travel farther to reach amenities.
Even now on a Sunday at 1:53pm it takes 32 minutes.
It's still one of, if not THE most trafficked zone in the LA basin so traffic heading there will be bad.
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I don't know Atlanta well enough to be reasonable. Would you be willing to share examples?
I posted examples above. But you can pull out a map and just see from random spots how long it takes to get somewhere. Right now on a free flowing Sunday in both places, the suburb to suburb traffic is significantly longer in Atlanta at similar distances when compared to greater LA.
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Our takes are slightly different. I agree with you about the infrastructure, but I think that the longer times in Atlanta are exacerbated by being low density and having to travel farther to reach amenities.
It is low density precisely due to its layout, in large part the infrastructure design. It could still be as low dense as it is, but be easier to get to point A to B and not take as long. Personally I think it's a big hazard to always see USPS or dump trucks try to do their jobs on the side of these busy country roads. With more growth, I believe the problem will get worse.
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