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No I understood what he was saying perfectly.No one is BLAMING anyone.Yet as easily as you can say you need to stop blaming people and better YOURSELF,it still does not change the fact that as human beings we are a product of our environments.Environments that the people effected by them the most had nor have no POWER over what type of environment that is created for them.This is true in many cases.The Native American's with high incidents of suicide and alcoholism,Latino Americans(non-white).In each situation in cases where there seem to be the greatest number of social ills among minority races,one of the things that they have any common is forced displacement from their origins.Why do you think Africans that come to America have a much higher success rate than the Africans by decent in America (African Americans)?
Being a "victim" is doing what those who are shooting ,killing,raping,drug dealing and murdering are doing.Personally I cannot see what makes it irrational for some one obviously intelligent like yourself,to somehow disassociate how evil and negative behavior does not beget that same behavior on some level over and over.It would seem that you and others like you, might seem to think instead that:" How can so many good things come from a people that have not benefited from generational privilege and wealth on the same level as the mainstream(white)And how the overwhelming majority in just as short as 40 years can educate themselves,their kids,fight for the right to even exist on the same level as their mainstream counterparts,while in their recent memory of brothers,sisters lynched ,beaten,discriminated against without having the a majority of them(of blacks)fail?
You may be "tired" of hearing it but we who are Americans that happened to be black are just "tired of it"period.We belong here.So as long as there is breath in our bodies to talk about what is real to us.You should feel proud as an American to allow for an honest discourse of dialogue.Maybe instead of closing your ears and being "tired" hearing of it, you could at least LISTEN.Hearing and listening are not the same.CONSIDER another point of view.Stop putting words and thoughts into peoples mouth about how YOU think they are(which actually proves the whole point of people with stereotypical and preconceived notions.ie.racism)and realize that there are some black people that make too many excuses(not a majority,but a good amount)but their are a good majority who in everday life thrive or at least survive to live fulfilling lives even while inequity lies all around them.The only white people to "blame" are the ones that DENY that the problem SOLEY lies on the minority instead of realizing that problems that were created over a period of 300 years do not MAJICALLY go away in a span of just 40 years.
I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense.
But I never said inequality did not exist. I was responding to someone who seems to be obsessed with dreaming up some theory of "white tricksters in the court of the jester" to explain race relations. The term "white" came from the fact that white people have a different skin color and ethnicity than black people, nothing more.
Life isnt fair. No one said it would be. Yeah, inequality exists, but it exists everywhere. And blacks arent the only ones who are discriminated against. My grandfather was an immigrant straight off the boat from Sicily. He was not considered white by other white people in the 1920s when he arrived. He was discriminated against. He was hated for his ethnicity. Yet he never complained, he never acknowledged it, he never blamed anyone. He rose above it and overcame it. And you dont see me harping on the "anglos" who discriminated against my people 70 years ago.
Inequality is never going to go away. Its simply impossible for everyone to be treated equally by all people, all the time. Instead of complaining about it, accept it as a part of life and move on. Do you not think you have a better life in America than you would in Africa, even with the inequality? My granfather felt this same way: yeah there is inequality here, but it sure is a better place to be than Sicily.
From my point of view, it seems like these theories and excuses are just ways to get a handout, and they create a sense of entitlement that just makes everything worse.
Instead of defending a worldview that relies on the crutches of racism, discrimination, inequality, enititlement due to historical events, and handouts, stop being a crybaby and move on. Life isnt fair, what else is new?
I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense.
But I never said inequality did not exist. I was responding to someone who seems to be obsessed with dreaming up some theory of "white tricksters in the court of the jester" to explain race relations. The term "white" came from the fact that white people have a different skin color and ethnicity than black people, nothing more.
Life isnt fair. No one said it would be. Yeah, inequality exists, but it exists everywhere. And blacks arent the only ones who are discriminated against. My grandfather was an immigrant straight off the boat from Sicily. He was not considered white by other white people in the 1920s when he arrived. He was discriminated against. He was hated for his ethnicity. Yet he never complained, he never acknowledged it, he never blamed anyone. He rose above it and overcame it. And you dont see me harping on the "anglos" who discriminated against my people 70 years ago.
Inequality is never going to go away. Its simply impossible for everyone to be treated equally by all people, all the time. Instead of complaining about it, accept it as a part of life and move on. Do you not think you have a better life in America than you would in Africa, even with the inequality? My granfather felt this same way: yeah there is inequality here, but it sure is a better place to be than Sicily.
From my point of view, it seems like these theories and excuses are just ways to get a handout, and they create a sense of entitlement that just makes everything worse.
Instead of defending a worldview that relies on the crutches of racism, discrimination, inequality, enititlement due to historical events, and handouts, stop being a crybaby and move on. Life isnt fair, what else is new?
I think this type of statement reflects part ignorance and part indirect racism. This however doesn't reflect you as racist, but it's obviously when some white people make this observation it's rather a myopic view. If Europeans would not have embarked on imperialism in Africa, I would believe Africa today would be totally different. Also, with out free labor produced by slavery, America today would be totally different.
I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense.
But I never said inequality did not exist. I was responding to someone who seems to be obsessed with dreaming up some theory of "white tricksters in the court of the jester" to explain race relations. The term "white" came from the fact that white people have a different skin color and ethnicity than black people, nothing more.
Life isnt fair. No one said it would be. Yeah, inequality exists, but it exists everywhere. And blacks arent the only ones who are discriminated against. My grandfather was an immigrant straight off the boat from Sicily. He was not considered white by other white people in the 1920s when he arrived. He was discriminated against. He was hated for his ethnicity. Yet he never complained, he never acknowledged it, he never blamed anyone. He rose above it and overcame it. And you dont see me harping on the "anglos" who discriminated against my people 70 years ago.
Inequality is never going to go away. Its simply impossible for everyone to be treated equally by all people, all the time. Instead of complaining about it, accept it as a part of life and move on. Do you not think you have a better life in America than you would in Africa, even with the inequality? My granfather felt this same way: yeah there is inequality here, but it sure is a better place to be than Sicily.
From my point of view, it seems like these theories and excuses are just ways to get a handout, and they create a sense of entitlement that just makes everything worse.
Instead of defending a worldview that relies on the crutches of racism, discrimination, inequality, enititlement due to historical events, and handouts, stop being a crybaby and move on. Life isnt fair, what else is new?
I know you are not racist.I reserve that for "C-F".However I do think to simplify the situation by relating to as one against the other is not fair or correct.I agree that too many folks make excuses.They are they are the reason the true valid situations are overlooked or dismissed.But i do take issue with part of your statement.You said your granparents from Siciley(beautiful place,used to be staioned in N.Italy)and were treated poorly.Well it is a sad thing that any human should endure.However if you "appear" as most Italian-Americans look today,you still are considered "white".No one is gonna tell you"I really like you ,too bad you were not white,then I would let you date my daughter".(I am paraphrasing,but the jist of it remains).They go on to say "I'm no racist,but I was not raised that way".
You are not prone to geting pulled over by the police in a nice car or neighborhood because "you fit a profile."The Human Spirit" is fragile.Some suceed in spite of but some get defeated.Especially if there is no "infrastructure" like family to support them.
Entitilement thinking is not new to just black people now a days.This is true everywhere.It just so happens that those who are minorities seem to be the target or the blame.Look at these CEO and bank failures.Yet why should anyone be entitled to make a 5million dollars in one year at a company that needs support for government funds?Yet the outcry is about some people who want to get paid for the same amont of work for an honest dollar?Its a fact that women make less than men,even with similar edcation and training.This is true for almost every minority with the exception of Asians.Are Asians smarter than everyone else?No.Why? read my next paragraph and it will make sense.
If you think about it African Americans in my parents generation worked hard and suffered so there kids did no have to.They grew up poorer but the family structure was always there.Their generation today created the wealth and foundation for their kids like me to succeed.Many of them in doing so ,lost touch with how the family was impotant.In almost every case of poverty and crime,it has can be traced back to a non-existent or little family envolvement.
Things changed drastiically when drugs were introduced.The family broke down.Disentigrated and all hell came to pass.In the rural areas of the Midwest and the South,small towns are suffering hard with a serious "meth" problem.The same breakdown you see in the inner city is now affecting those area where the color is mostly white and poor.
These things are happening across all economic regions now.
So that brings back to why Asians seem to thrive?Well if you have not guessed,it is because of FAMILY.Family ties,expectations,obligations and prideof their generations before them.Generation that make sure that the new generation understands what is expected of them.
My grandpparents did for each of my parents as my parents did it for me and my sister.But my Aunt who did not take time to instll those values in her kids ,now has one in and out of jail,the 2 girls got pregnant before they were 18.(of course out of wedlock).One lives on government assistant with her now 3out of 4 kids.(One is 20 and in jail for drug charges).The other sister after some trouble and mentoring from my grandmother before she died has got herself together and has raised her one son who is learning a trade.She is now raising her deadbeat sisters other son who is 17 now.She has kept him from following his brothers footsteps in to crime.Looks like we avoided another disaster.He is a smart kid with a great future.
I tried my best to help his older brother by being the male figure in his life when he was 18.He moved in with me.I made him look for a job,cut his dreds,showed him the finer things in life.What did he do?He stole a car with some friends,stayed away for a days without calling,etc....Thing is that this kid talked really well,was very inteligent,but I digress,because that is exactly what a con does.It hurt me to put him out after I found a big back of weed afer he hadbeen gone for two days without word.But after several warnings,thats exactly what I did.THAT SAME DAY.I gave him money for a cab and have never heard from him since(4 yrs later).He is now in state prison serving some drug related charges.Just 21 years old now.Sad story but its real for many of us black people who ARE doing what we need to do to survive.Yet we put up with THIS kinda crap from our own families and friends and then have to deal with people that tell us WE(meaning I and others like me) are the PROBLEM?WTF?!!You think you are mad?LOL!!When it it should be apparent that WE are AS/MORE appalled at these things than the "mainstream".
All the while the focus seems to be on what "they" need to do as oppose to what WE need to do.The problems in the "black community" cannot be the problems created or solved by just the "black community" when we live in a just simply;a COMMUNITY that was the catalyst for these problems to begin with.
I don't expect you to understand,but you should see where the individual is coming from not from something as "non-descript" as race.
I know you are not racist.I reserve that for "C-F".However I do think to simplify the situation by relating to as one against the other is not fair or correct.I agree that too many folks make excuses.They are they are the reason the true valid situations are overlooked or dismissed.But i do take issue with part of your statement.You said your granparents from Siciley(beautiful place,used to be staioned in N.Italy)and were treated poorly.Well it is a sad thing that any human should endure.However if you "appear" as most Italian-Americans look today,you still are considered "white".No one is gonna tell you"I really like you ,too bad you were not white,then I would let you date my daughter".(I am paraphrasing,but the jist of it remains).They go on to say "I'm no racist,but I was not raised that way".
You are not prone to geting pulled over by the police in a nice car or neighborhood because "you fit a profile."The Human Spirit" is fragile.Some suceed in spite of but some get defeated.Especially if there is no "infrastructure" like family to support them.
Entitilement thinking is not new to just black people now a days.This is true everywhere.It just so happens that those who are minorities seem to be the target or the blame.Look at these CEO and bank failures.Yet why should anyone be entitled to make a 5million dollars in one year at a company that needs support for government funds?Yet the outcry is about some people who want to get paid for the same amont of work for an honest dollar?Its a fact that women make less than men,even with similar edcation and training.This is true for almost every minority with the exception of Asians.Are Asians smarter than everyone else?No.Why? read my next paragraph and it will make sense.
If you think about it African Americans in my parents generation worked hard and suffered so there kids did no have to.They grew up poorer but the family structure was always there.Their generation today created the wealth and foundation for their kids like me to succeed.Many of them in doing so ,lost touch with how the family was impotant.In almost every case of poverty and crime,it has can be traced back to a non-existent or little family envolvement.
Things changed drastiically when drugs were introduced.The family broke down.Disentigrated and all hell came to pass.In the rural areas of the Midwest and the South,small towns are suffering hard with a serious "meth" problem.The same breakdown you see in the inner city is now affecting those area where the color is mostly white and poor.
These things are happening across all economic regions now.
So that brings back to why Asians seem to thrive?Well if you have not guessed,it is because of FAMILY.Family ties,expectations,obligations and prideof their generations before them.Generation that make sure that the new generation understands what is expected of them.
My grandpparents did for each of my parents as my parents did it for me and my sister.But my Aunt who did not take time to instll those values in her kids ,now has one in and out of jail,the 2 girls got pregnant before they were 18.(of course out of wedlock).One lives on government assistant with her now 3out of 4 kids.(One is 20 and in jail for drug charges).The other sister after some trouble and mentoring from my grandmother before she died has got herself together and has raised her one son who is learning a trade.She is now raising her deadbeat sisters other son who is 17 now.She has kept him from following his brothers footsteps in to crime.Looks like we avoided another disaster.He is a smart kid with a great future.
I tried my best to help his older brother by being the male figure in his life when he was 18.He moved in with me.I made him look for a job,cut his dreds,showed him the finer things in life.What did he do?He stole a car with some friends,stayed away for a days without calling,etc....Thing is that this kid talked really well,was very inteligent,but I digress,because that is exactly what a con does.It hurt me to put him out after I found a big back of weed afer he hadbeen gone for two days without word.But after several warnings,thats exactly what I did.THAT SAME DAY.I gave him money for a cab and have never heard from him since(4 yrs later).He is now in state prison serving some drug related charges.Just 21 years old now.Sad story but its real for many of us black people who ARE doing what we need to do to survive.Yet we put up with THIS kinda crap from our own families and friends and then have to deal with people that tell us WE(meaning I and others like me) are the PROBLEM?WTF?!!You think you are mad?LOL!!When it it should be apparent that WE are AS/MORE appalled at these things than the "mainstream".
All the while the focus seems to be on what "they" need to do as oppose to what WE need to do.The problems in the "black community" cannot be the problems created or solved by just the "black community" when we live in a just simply;a COMMUNITY that was the catalyst for these problems to begin with.
I don't expect you to understand,but you should see where the individual is coming from not from something as "non-descript" as race.
Well, although I don't agree with everything you said, I agree with most of it, and you make a good argument.
Well, although I don't agree with everything you said, I agree with most of it, and you make a good argument.
long as you are willing to listen,thats the most important thing.We don't have to agree,but we can respect each others experiences as unique and varied
I think this type of statement reflects part ignorance and part indirect racism. This however doesn't reflect you as racist, but it's obviously when some white people make this observation it's rather a myopic view. If Europeans would not have embarked on imperialism in Africa, I would believe Africa today would be totally different. Also, with out free labor produced by slavery, America today would be totally different.
I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense.
But I never said inequality did not exist. I was responding to someone who seems to be obsessed with dreaming up some theory of "white tricksters in the court of the jester" to explain race relations. The term "white" came from the fact that white people have a different skin color and ethnicity than black people, nothing more.
Life isnt fair. No one said it would be. Yeah, inequality exists, but it exists everywhere. And blacks arent the only ones who are discriminated against. My grandfather was an immigrant straight off the boat from Sicily. He was not considered white by other white people in the 1920s when he arrived. He was discriminated against. He was hated for his ethnicity. Yet he never complained, he never acknowledged it, he never blamed anyone. He rose above it and overcame it. And you dont see me harping on the "anglos" who discriminated against my people 70 years ago.
Inequality is never going to go away. Its simply impossible for everyone to be treated equally by all people, all the time. Instead of complaining about it, accept it as a part of life and move on. Do you not think you have a better life in America than you would in Africa, even with the inequality? My granfather felt this same way: yeah there is inequality here, but it sure is a better place to be than Sicily.
From my point of view, it seems like these theories and excuses are just ways to get a handout, and they create a sense of entitlement that just makes everything worse.
Instead of defending a worldview that relies on the crutches of racism, discrimination, inequality, enititlement due to historical events, and handouts, stop being a crybaby and move on. Life isnt fair, what else is new?
Your relative from Sicily did come off of the boat and yes, as a foreigner he caught crap, but he didn't catch crap for being black. He didn't have the stigma of being black in those days. If you were black in those days you got it worse than anyone else. Another thing to think about is the way he came here. He came here as an immigrant, new to this nation and he new he wasn't a citizen, yet. He had his eye on something more. African-Americans were already in this nation for 200 to 300 years by then and were still seen as less than human. For African-Americans, the American Dream was far removed from most. Another thing to think about, immigrants had their share of gangs and people who were "unabiding of the law" and felt "entitled" back then. Go read some history books. As for you great grandfather, he came to this nation to work hard. I'll give him that. With that said, he was afforded more of an opportunity to do so than most African-Americans during that time.
And yes, I am painfully aware that life isn't fair and that there is inequality. Why did that inequality occur. The old saying "crap happens", I don't believe it. Crap get done, by people to people. Why should you acccept that? What can be done about it? Why did it happen?
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