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I'm believing now that Howard can't really fit with Kobe...Howard needs alot of touches to get his rhythm..he isn't like Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson who could get hot with few touches...Howard needs to be the #1 option to really flourish and there is no way that is going to happen as long as Kobe is still with the Lakers. He might be better off not re-signing with Lakers unless they can assure him that Kobe will either retire when his contract ends next season...either that or Kobe signs with another team.
I'm believing now that Howard can't really fit with Kobe...Howard needs alot of touches to get his rhythm..he isn't like Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson who could get hot with few touches...Howard needs to be the #1 option to really flourish and there is no way that is going to happen as long as Kobe is still with the Lakers. He might be better off not re-signing with Lakers unless they can assure him that Kobe will either retire when his contract ends next season...either that or Kobe signs with another team.
It's good that i'm finally rubbing off on you. I previously stated this and the Lakers are still saying that they won't get rid of Dwight, but if I was Dwight, i'd start scouting the teams now for where I wanted to play next year. I do think that it would still be much easier for him coming out of the east.
Yes, because the Lakers defense is bottom 5 or so in the league and they don't need him anchoring the middle defensively? Oh wait, you are angling for them to get more lottery balls with Dwight sitting....ok, I agree with that.
The remark wasn't necessarily a dig at Howard individually; it's just an acknowledgment that his presence or lack of it isn't going to have much of an impact on the team going forward. The problem is that the Lakers wanted all of these big names but never had a vision for what this team's identity would be. Before the season began, when all of these players were signed, the team's vision for the season was to become a defensive-oriented team. The problem was that they couldn't score points. Then they bring in D'Antoni and they immediately tried to become the 2005 Phoenix Suns.
Ultimately, what's left is a team of individuals who can still probably make good contributions to quality teams, but together, it's just a bad product. And nothing is going to change that. Howard can be on the floor or on the bench - doesn't matter. Dwight's 5 to 10 blocks in a game aren't going to change that because he isn't going to be much of a scoring threat. Teams have had a lot of fun lately wearing down the older, slower Lakers in the 4th quarter, in case you haven't noticed. Howard's youth could help the Lakers address that issue, but his big body and poor health cancel out his youth, I think. Their lack of youth, stamina, and athleticism was actually one of my main concerns coming into the season, because even with all their big names, OKC beat the Lakers with athletic superiority last year and they never really addressed that problem.
But, here we are now. We went from a team that might have some unresolved weaknesses in the playoffs to what is arguably the NBA's equivalent of the Real Madrid in the David Beckham era. As I said about a month or two ago, the Lakers might be able to salvage some of their season by firing D'Antoni right now and just taking their chances with Bernie. They actually had a winning record under him - the only coach who can say that this season. They're going to fire D'Antoni at the end of the season (at the latest anyway), so why not just see what happens. Afraid of losing the team? This team was almost lost four weeks into the season and it's really lost now.
The remark wasn't necessarily a dig at Howard individually; it's just an acknowledgment that his presence or lack of it isn't going to have much of an impact on the team going forward. The problem is that the Lakers wanted all of these big names but never had a vision for what this team's identity would be. Before the season began, when all of these players were signed, the team's vision for the season was to become a defensive-oriented team. The problem was that they couldn't score points. Then they bring in D'Antoni and they immediately tried to become the 2005 Phoenix Suns.
Ultimately, what's left is a team of individuals who can still probably make good contributions to quality teams, but together, it's just a bad product. And nothing is going to change that. Howard can be on the floor or on the bench - doesn't matter. Dwight's 5 to 10 blocks in a game aren't going to change that because he isn't going to be much of a scoring threat. Teams have had a lot of fun lately wearing down the older, slower Lakers in the 4th quarter, in case you haven't noticed. Howard's youth could help the Lakers address that issue, but his big body and poor health cancel out his youth, I think. Their lack of youth, stamina, and athleticism was actually one of my main concerns coming into the season, because even with all their big names, OKC beat the Lakers with athletic superiority last year and they never really addressed that problem.
But, here we are now. We went from a team that might have some unresolved weaknesses in the playoffs to what is arguably the NBA's equivalent of the Real Madrid in the David Beckham era. As I said about a month or two ago, the Lakers might be able to salvage some of their season by firing D'Antoni right now and just taking their chances with Bernie. They actually had a winning record under him - the only coach who can say that this season. They're going to fire D'Antoni at the end of the season (at the latest anyway), so why not just see what happens. Afraid of losing the team? This team was almost lost four weeks into the season and it's really lost now.
I will never concede that a team that went out and got Steve Nash and has a bunch of really old starters was ever envisioned as a defensive oriented team.
I doubt their vision went a whole lot past Kobe turning on Bynum and Gasol last season and demanding thier trade. They tried to trade Gasol and couldn't. MWP is also untradeable.
How can a guy averaging >17ppg not be a scoring threat in your book?
I will never concede that a team that went out and got Steve Nash and has a bunch of really old starters was ever envisioned as a defensive oriented team.
Okay, but why did they keep Mike Brown then? I guess the point I'm making goes back to that identity thing -- they didn't really have one. I agree with you that when it comes to the personnel, the front office was thinking points, but how did they think it was going to happen with a guy who mainly preaches defense? There was no identity for the team. There still isn't one, and whatever D'Antoni's trying to sell, the players obviously aren't buying into it.
Like I said, it's time for the Lakers to start planning toward the future - beyond Kobe and really beyond anyone they have on their roster right now. With their salaries, that might not be easy, but that's what needs to happen in some fashion or form.
I will never concede that a team that went out and got Steve Nash and has a bunch of really old starters was ever envisioned as a defensive oriented team.
I doubt their vision went a whole lot past Kobe turning on Bynum and Gasol last season and demanding thier trade. They tried to trade Gasol and couldn't. MWP is also untradeable.
How can a guy averaging >17ppg not be a scoring threat in your book?
well i think initially the thought was, artest and kobe should be able to cover the defensive liability of nash, and then we have a DPOY manning the middle our defense should be decent. brown was a defensive MINDED coach, not the best by far but he leaned that way.
where they went wrong was nash was not only terrible in his prime, now hes what 59 years old? kobe is not a defensive stopper and imo was not every a TOP defender, better then average for sure, top level i dont think so. and artest is FAR REMOVED from his DPOY days, he thinks hes a shooter these days so he doesnt defend like 10 years ago. and howard is IMO clearly not 100% health wise. i would venture to say he is maybe 75-80%.
they decided to abandon all hope of defense when they hired porn stache to coach, but their fatal flaw was thinking nash and dantoni could turn them into the 7SOL suns. they thought they could recreate that but with better players (in name anyway). i mean historically, nash with kobe, artest, pau, and howard, hell that shoiuld be a no brainer dream team, 5 players who at one time were great at what they did. some systems just dont work without the PERFECT fits. i would venture to say that put kobe on the spurs today and the spurs lose more games then they have lost this season. they become a 45-50 win team instead of a 55-60 win team. same thing with any player on the lakers with the exception of maybe howard. putting howard next to duncan and i think he takes them (even at 75%) up maybe 3-5 more wins. no other player on the lakers roster right now could help the spurs, they dont fit the system. i dont think ANY laker helps the heat, and im not sure any of them help the thunder. maybe howard in place of mean muggin perkins and im not even sure he fits in that role. kobe might fit with either of the NY teams, but thats about it.
some players are universal and some are niche. IMO put tony parker on the lakers and he doesnt help much. more then nash but not a lot. put tim duncan on any team in the league and he will find a way to fit in IMO. i dont know that lebron can fit in on other teams either. lebron on the current lakers roster will get them more wins just of out shear skill and effort but i dont think they could win a title the 1st or even 2nd year. i think it would take 3-4 years and a couple tweaks to win them a ring with a starting 5 of nash/kobe/lebron/pau/howard.
Okay, but why did they keep Mike Brown then? I guess the point I'm making goes back to that identity thing -- they didn't really have one. I agree with you that when it comes to the personnel, the front office was thinking points, but how did they think it was going to happen with a guy who mainly preaches defense? There was no identity for the team. There still isn't one, and whatever D'Antoni's trying to sell, the players obviously aren't buying into it.
Like I said, it's time for the Lakers to start planning toward the future - beyond Kobe and really beyond anyone they have on their roster right now. With their salaries, that might not be easy, but that's what needs to happen in some fashion or form.
I can't speak to the Mike Brown thing.
As for D'Antoni...the season had just started and so they really didn't have a lot of options and I get the feeling Phil didn't want that mess of egos for all the money in the world. He has been a VERY vocal critic of Kobe at times in his career and he saw what a mess this experiment was. Life is too short. lol.
My main suspicion is that a lot of their moves were done to placate Kobe, especially after last season. Hey, the guy is an ultimate competitor which is an enormous strength but also can be an enormous liability at times as sometimes having patience is actually a good thing.
well i think initially the thought was, artest and kobe should be able to cover the defensive liability of nash, and then we have a DPOY manning the middle our defense should be decent. brown was a defensive MINDED coach, not the best by far but he leaned that way.
where they went wrong was nash was not only terrible in his prime, now hes what 59 years old? kobe is not a defensive stopper and imo was not every a TOP defender, better then average for sure, top level i dont think so. and artest is FAR REMOVED from his DPOY days, he thinks hes a shooter these days so he doesnt defend like 10 years ago. and howard is IMO clearly not 100% health wise. i would venture to say he is maybe 75-80%.
they decided to abandon all hope of defense when they hired porn stache to coach, but their fatal flaw was thinking nash and dantoni could turn them into the 7SOL suns. they thought they could recreate that but with better players (in name anyway). i mean historically, nash with kobe, artest, pau, and howard, hell that shoiuld be a no brainer dream team, 5 players who at one time were great at what they did. some systems just dont work without the PERFECT fits. i would venture to say that put kobe on the spurs today and the spurs lose more games then they have lost this season. they become a 45-50 win team instead of a 55-60 win team. same thing with any player on the lakers with the exception of maybe howard. putting howard next to duncan and i think he takes them (even at 75%) up maybe 3-5 more wins. no other player on the lakers roster right now could help the spurs, they dont fit the system. i dont think ANY laker helps the heat, and im not sure any of them help the thunder. maybe howard in place of mean muggin perkins and im not even sure he fits in that role. kobe might fit with either of the NY teams, but thats about it.
some players are universal and some are niche. IMO put tony parker on the lakers and he doesnt help much. more then nash but not a lot. put tim duncan on any team in the league and he will find a way to fit in IMO. i dont know that lebron can fit in on other teams either. lebron on the current lakers roster will get them more wins just of out shear skill and effort but i dont think they could win a title the 1st or even 2nd year. i think it would take 3-4 years and a couple tweaks to win them a ring with a starting 5 of nash/kobe/lebron/pau/howard.
Good discussion.
The bottom line is the Lakers roster is just freaking old. None of them are anywhere near 100% of their prime.
Dear god, remember all the flak I got for pointing out that Dwight was the only guy under 32 on the roster and explaining that Nash couldn't guard a turd sandwich on a hot summer day?
As for D'Antoni...the season had just started and so they really didn't have a lot of options and I get the feeling Phil didn't want that mess of egos for all the money in the world. He has been a VERY vocal critic of Kobe at times in his career and he saw what a mess this experiment was. Life is too short. lol.
My main suspicion is that a lot of their moves were done to placate Kobe, especially after last season. Hey, the guy is an ultimate competitor which is an enormous strength but also can be an enormous liability at times as sometimes having patience is actually a good thing.
I think you're right. Kobe's upside is his competitiveness, but he doesn't trust his teammates, and I have always felt that, as much as players respect his game, they don't always see him as the on-court and locker-room leader that players saw Michael Jordan. I'm sure MJ scolded players, too, but it always seemed like he did it in a way that people could tolerate. Kobe sometimes tears people down and projects his own failures onto other players.
i think it was here we were talking about the lakers tanking this season for the ping pong balls?
this from espn.
Quote:
If the Los Angeles Lakers' pick is No. 1 to No. 14, it goes to the Phoenix Suns
if it is higher it goes to philly so no mater where the lakers land they have no 1st round pick. they are essentially playing for the playoffs or playing just to play because their pick is unprotected.
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