California Dream Act Signed By Jerry Brown: Second Bill Passes (Los Angeles: low income, sales)

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by mollymonk

Brown is a traitor to all the legal hardworking taxpayers in California.

I beg the rest of the country 'Don't Bail Us Out' !!! We need to hit rock bottom...Brown and all the idiots in the California legislature need to be voted out along with all their give-away-freebie programs for the illegals.

California was not going to be bailed out anyway. So Brown signed a bill authorizing illegals to receive tax payer funded grants at a time when the state is in a financial crisis and cutting budgets to needed state programs.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by KC6ZLV

You are missing the whole point. This is just one more thing politicians have done at the expense of American citizens and legal immigrants. Justification of as being OK based on what percentage it is of the total budget is one of the reasons California has a fiscal mess. That added expense here and a few more there adds up. $14.5 million isn't small. It is money diverted away from American citizens so some Mexican in the Assembly who doesn't care about this country can get reelected.

No, we aren't discussing the issue of educating disadvantaged youths. We are discussing the issue of educating illegal aliens. The issue is there are limited resources which are increasingly being diverted from disadvantaged American citizens to illegal aliens for political gain.

No, I'm not missing any point at all ... I have never said the bill was "OK", based on percent or anything else ... I said, and continue to say: this is peanuts compared to more pressing and dangerous realities that threaten both state and union ... and the more pressing threats are caused by a certain class of American citizens ... which sociopathic citizens very much enjoy American electorate distraction into emotional sideshows.

As for educating disadvantaged youth vs. educating illegal aliens -- uh, virtually all the illegal aliens ARE disadvantaged youth who ARE, and WILL continue to be, negative impactions on our collective futures. They are here, like it or not ... they will stay, like it or not ... until we figure out how to have a sane and effective immigration policy -- and enforced, we WILL have to deal with this population ... you may think it is a good plan to limit them in every way possible to ignorance and poverty ... many social scientists and economists and others see value in converting any qualified person from a disadvantaged background to a more productive and contributing player in society.

All this knee-jerk crap is emotional distraction from reality and science. Direct your anger at the players at the top ... convert any qualified individual to a productive status. You say you are offended by the money being spent in this? Where's your outrage at the trillions being used to bail out people who don't need bailing out?

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by scottfreez

To what degree are California's high schools, community colleges and universities already suffering under the additional burden of illegal aliens?

I don't think any organization has identified the number of illegal aliens, or "legal" children born to illegal aliens in our public school system. It is one of the things I find rather frustrating in these types of discussions, it is difficult to get hold of facts, except from "advocacy" organizations (and by this I mean advocacy both ways, for and against).

The best I can determine, there are about 6,300,000 kids in our public school system today (K-12). Of these, almost 3 million are identified as hispanic.


California Public School - List of California Public Schools


If I assume that about 1/3 of the hispanic kids are either illegal aliens, or legal children of illegal aliens, then that would mean 1 million kids who fit that category. I picked the 1 million figure because we are assumed to have 13-15 million in this country today, and I figure California has a bit of a higher share than the rest of the nation.

As I recall, California now spends about $8,500 per pupil on public education. So, if I am in the ballpark of 1 million students who are associated with illegal alien status, then our annual public school expenditures for these kids would be about $8.5 billion, or about 10% of our general fund budget.

That may be a bit high, but I haven't been able to find any source of information providing more accurate numbers.

[scottfreez]

This thread reads almost as good as a TC Boyle story.

What's peanuts to null geo is like a broken window. You get broken windows and don't take care of them, pretty soon the whole neighborhood goes downhill as vandals break more windows and start sleeping in and lighting fires in the buildings where they don't belong. A small amount of money in the big picture, a hollow political gesture by a questionably sleazy politician, but exactly what is not needed : an open invitation for illegals to move in. Another broken window.

On the other hand as the more PC-minded say, it's shallow to blame the problems on Mexicans. Fine, then, why not go deeper and fix the problems in Mexico? Why not bring all our soldiers home and clean up the gang wars just over our own border? Invest in Mexican infrastructure and Mexican schools and universities? Help build a strong neighbor? It's very complex, ideological, and so on.

You can hardly blame Mexicans for wanting to reach a better life. After all that's what America is supposed to be about, right?

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by scottfreez

On the other hand as the more PC-minded say, it's shallow to blame the problems on Mexicans. Fine, then, why not go deeper and fix the problems in Mexico? Why not bring all our soldiers home and clean up the gang wars just over our own border? Invest in Mexican infrastructure and schools and so on? Help build a strong neighbor? It's very complex, ideological, and so on.

Decriminalizing marijuana would be a good start to helping out our Southern neighbor.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by scottfreez

This thread reads almost as good as a TC Boyle story.

What's peanuts to null geo is like a broken window. You get broken windows and don't take care of them, pretty soon the whole neighborhood goes downhill as vandals break more windows and start sleeping in and lighting fires in the buildings where they don't belong. A small amount of money in the big picture, a hollow political gesture by a questionably sleazy politician, but exactly what is not needed : an open invitation for illegals to move in. Another broken window.

On the other hand as the more PC-minded say, it's shallow to blame the problems on Mexicans. Fine, then, why not go deeper and fix the problems in Mexico? Why not bring all our soldiers home and clean up the gang wars just over our own border? Invest in Mexican infrastructure and schools and so on? Help build a strong neighbor? It's very complex, ideological, and so on.

You can hardly blame Mexicans for wanting to reach a better life. After all that's what America is supposed to be about, right?

I'll say it again, yet another way: those of you who are worrying about a broken pane of glass in one window might want to check out what the wrecking ball on a giant crane is doing to the other side of the building. Heads up!

[scottfreez]

Originally Posted by Don9

With the current policies ... in 1-2 decades the overwhelming majority will be Mexicans.

The only thing to do is start humping!

[KC6ZLV]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

No, I'm not missing any point at all ... I have never said the bill was "OK", based on percent or anything else ... I said, and continue to say: this is peanuts compared to more pressing and dangerous realities that threaten both state and union ... and the more pressing threats are caused by a certain class of American citizens ... which sociopathic citizens very much enjoy American electorate distraction into emotional sideshows.

Yes, you are missing the point. A few peanuts here and a few more there adds up to a problem when balancing the budget. And explain your reasoning about emotional issues when they are told there aren't sufficient Cal Grant funds due to increasing the pool of eligible students so Gil Cedillo can win a term in whatever public office he decides to run for in the future.

As for educating disadvantaged youth vs. educating illegal aliens -- uh, virtually all the illegal aliens ARE disadvantaged youth who ARE, and WILL continue to be, negative impactions on our collective futures. They are here, like it or not ... they will stay, like it or not ... until we figure out how to have a sane and effective immigration policy -- and enforced, we WILL have to deal with this population ... you may think it is a good plan to limit them in every way possible to ignorance and poverty ... many social scientists and economists and others see value in converting any qualified person from a disadvantaged background to a more productive and contributing player in society.

You know what? The taxpayers as a group probably feel it is unfortunate that illegal aliens are disadvantaged, but really, the taxpayers shouldn't be responsible for the health, housing and educational expenses of people who come here illegally and are really tired of hearing about Mexicans, and the imagined injustices some of them dream up, especially those of illegal aliens. If they are unable to navigate their way through American society like many other ethnic groups who come into this country, and if life is so tough for them they are free to go back to Mexico.

All this knee-jerk crap is emotional distraction from reality and science. Direct your anger at the players at the top ... convert any qualified individual to a productive status.

No, it isn't a knee-jerk reaction. Consider the issue. Gil Cedillo and the Democratic party want votes. Gil Cedillo writes a bill that will give benefits to people who are in this country illegally as a way to buy votes from a given demographic, at the expense of taxpayers during a time when educational cuts are forcing teacher layoffs and cutbacks in enrollment and courses at community colleges and universities.

You say you are offended by the money being spent in this? Where's your outrage at the trillions being used to bail out people who don't need bailing out?

Why the accusation that I don't have a problem with the bailouts? If you think it adds anything to the discussion, well, it doesn't. Really, I have no idea how or why you think you think I have any given position on the bailouts because we haven't discussed it. And obviously, you haven't read some of my previous posts on the issue. But since you brought up the issue of the bailouts, I will talk about them briefly.

The reason for the bailouts is very similar to the reason for passing the Dream Act. The only difference is in the case of the bailouts, those politicians did it for campaign contributions from Wall St., and/or saving their personal investments, and the Dream Act was about buying votes from Mexicans.

Now, do you understand how corruption in politics works?

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I'll say it again, yet another way: those of you who are worrying about a broken pane of glass in one window might want to check out what the wrecking ball on a giant crane is doing to the other side of the building. Heads up!

That's BS, your trying to minimize and distract from the facts. The issue of California liberal politicians passing laws, without public votes, to use tax payer money for illegal aliens, criminals who have broken US laws, and pay for their college costs when California tax paying citizens are struggling to maintain family life, and when the state is in financial crisis ... I think the liberal politicians should be prosecuted for this illegal activity.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by scottfreez

Then don't waste my bandwidth with unsupported statements!!!

You are making a very generic requests for "support" from the people that aren't up in arms over this bill, while making no such requests from anybody else. Its hard to imagine that you are seriously trying to get to the bottom of matters, but the best way to do that is to actually read the details.

Now, in terms of wasting your bandwidth, may I suggest adding me to your ignore list? My comments will no longer waste your bandwidth, indeed, you can entirely insulate yourself from everyone with differing views.