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Okay, I'm only skim reading here because there is so much to read. But often we need to look at the other side of the fence and try to put ourselves in their shoes. As I have stated in the past, being a graphic artist, I have worked with gay men and enjoy their company. Have always been a live and let live kind of gal. Having said that, I'm uncomfortable with explaining this lifestyle to my children and don't want it shoved into the educational part of their lives.
I think we all voted the way we wanted to vote and that is the ball game. That is the American way. If it had gone the other way...I would be here complaining about where my rights are...as a traditional married person "Man and Woman". Why the Gay lifestyle is being forced into our children's lifestyle and our laws. I keep hearing about "Gay rights" what about my rights?
If the law only said...gays can marry. Hey, fine with me. But don't rewrite our countries history, our most important documents...and don't tell me my kids have to deal with it. They're kids for god's sake Let them deal with the adult world, traditional sex, gay sex, whatever! when they are adults.
What we do need to teach our kids is tolerance of others. Understanding of others...religion, color, sex, ethinic background. At a level they can understand and when they can understand it and when I as a parent think it is time for them to understand it.
Please understand I'm not a person who "Hates or fears gays" but don't force it into my life...I have bigger fish to fry.
But why do the churches of America feel it is ok to inflict their opinions of people who are not of that denomination?
Actually, Traditional Marriage is not the exception, but the rule. Its not Traditional Marriage that is being forced on society. We are not the ones trying to change anything.
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Where in the old testament does it say that you should force people into submission by demanding they follow your rules.
Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden because they partook of the Forbidden Fruit which God expressly commanded them not to eat. As a result, they were forced to sustain themselves 'by the sweat of their brow'.
Abraham had to prove his faith by having to sacrifice his own son. Only moments before doing so, An Angel stopped him and told him that he had satisfied God.
When Moses led the Isrealites out of Egypt, they were forced to wander in circles for 40 years(in any area the size of The Bay Area) until God felt they had humbled themselves enough to finally arrive at their Promised Land.
Not to mention, when Moses came down from Mt Sinai with the Commandments, he was angered to see his people worshipping idols and condemned them to repentance.
In the New Testament,
Jesus came to the Temple and was enraged to see people defiling his father's house by selling things there, he made a whip and shewed them out.
There are plenty of examples of God rebuking sin and plenty of examples of God using his servants to manifest his will.
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It is up to God to judge us on our behavior.
True. But since he isnt here on the Earth, we know his will by the mouths of those he's selected to act on his behalf.
Amos 3:7Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
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The people did not set Soddom or Gomorrah on fire. It was up to GOD to do that.
Not before he warned his people.
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SO why do all these yes on prop 8 people believe that they now have the right to play God?
I wonder why acting according to one's faith is now labeled as 'playing god'?
Quite simply, Luke 9:24 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man(Jesus) be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
In other words, if we are ashamed of Jesus in front of the world, then he will be ashamed of us in front of his Father.
By why do the churches of America feel it is ok to inflict their opinions of people who are not of that denomination?
Where in the old testament (which just about ever religion uses that-except muslim, hindi, and buddhist, but they weren't protesting now were they.) does it say that you should force people into submission by demanding they follow your rules. Where does it say God wants you to treat others UNLIKE the way you want to be treated yourself? It doesn't.
Why are they breaking the laws of their own Bible?
It is up to God to judge us on our behavior. The people did not set Soddom or Gomorrah on fire. It was up to GOD to do that. SO why do all these yes on prop 8 people believe that they now have the right to play God?
Please explain yourselves to us and to your God.
Actually, God does say that religious people can ram their morals down other peoples' throats. One of the reasons I'm so turned off by religion (particularly Christianity) is because in the old testament God is a mean mofo and in the new testament suddenly he's a big fluffy bunny. That's what led me to believe that God was made in man's image and he condones whatever man wants to do based on who was writing the Bible and at what period of time they were writing it. From the old testament, there is one part where God "tells" his followers to go into a town of basically polytheists and kill everyone including women, children, pregnant women, and especially all the men and burn their village to the ground because they don't believe in God. Wow, isn't God so just and merciful? That's why organized religion makes me sick because if God says it then it MUST be true and if God hints at it then one MUST do what God says. Eff that.
Izzy, how does letting gay people marry "force" it into your life? Let me guess... You actually believe the propaganda that was shoved down everyone's throats in the "Yes on 8" commercials. Oh, the horror - kids possibly being taught about gay marriage in schools, right? Like I've said before, I always had to sign a permission slip before my kids were taught any kind of sex education, and I think marriage falls into that category. Besides, when the CA Supreme Court ruled that barring gays and lesbians from marrying was unconstitutional, it just meant that they could legally marry in California. Nothing else. For four months, nothing else happened. If the religious people hadn't put Prop. 8 on the ballot, nothing else would have been said, and the world wouldn't have ended.
I think we all voted the way we wanted to vote and that is the ball game. That is the American way.
No actually it is not the American way, and that's the problem. Mob rule isn't supposed to dictate to minority groups what rights they do and do not have. Which is why allowing a simple majority to strip people's rights away by amending a constitution is so screwed up.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
We are not the ones trying to change anything.
Oh, really? So I guess you don't need to revise the constitution to define marriage between a man and a woman exclusively right?
Forgot the quote, sorry.[quote] "Oh, the horror - kids possibly being taught about gay marriage in schools, right? Like I've said before, I always had to sign a permission slip before my kids were taught any kind of sex education, and I think marriage falls into that category."[end quote]
No Marriage does not fall into that category. It is not pieced out into a "class on marriage". It is routinely used in text books to explain parts of history, current affairs, news of the day. I want that information filtered to what "I" consider a G rating for my kids.
Example: My 9 year old daughter is not allowed to read teen magazines. They are not "G" rated. Another girl in her class brought in a magazine that had a picture of two women kissing...full blown tongue in the mouth kissing. NOT G RATED!!!
The whatever, big deal, so your kids have to deal with it, attitude...is exactly what the teacher's union was telling all of America when they supported "NO on 8". In fact they did the "NO on 8" folks a BIG disservice. It took parents radar to a new level. Teachers were taking sides by their union supporting one side. Which made all of the parents seat up and notice and say "What is happening here." Why are the teachers getting involved...how will this affect our schools?"
Uhh...isn't this whole thread about how Prop 8 just passed and now NO church in CA can marry gays? Correct me if I'm wrong...
You are correct, no church or religious organization can marry a gay couple and have it legal. The Uniterian Church can do ceremonies, but not legally binding. The passing of 8 makes gay marriage a unilateral ban. I could see it if the christian and mormon church did not want to perform the marriages, but their agenda is to assure themselves that gay couples cannot have a committed and legally binding relationship. That is why they are pushing for extinguishing the rights of domestic partners in Florida and as they will try to do here too.
At the end of the day, California broke the law of the land
Posted this in another thread, but it's relevant here too:
First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
So, they have the right to peaceably assemble AND petition the government for a redress (repair/remedy wrongs or injuries).
Furthermore... if you look at the first sentence:
"...make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
Which means that based on the Constitution of the United States... the government has no right to make any laws that respects or follows the covenants of ANY religion.
"The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, or religion over non-religion. Originally, the First Amendment only applied to the federal government. Subsequently, under the incorporation doctrine, certain selected provisions were applied to states. It was not, however, until the middle and later years of the twentieth century that the Supreme Court began to interpret the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses in such a manner as to restrict the promotion of religion by state governments. For example, in the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet,512 U.S. 687 (1994), Justice David Souter, writing for the majority, concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion"." First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So, by "defining" marriage as something only a man or a woman can do is violating the First Amendment and respecting the establishment of Christianity (Illegal) or religious preference.
I don't think the Yes vote on prop 8 is going to stand. I'm not gay... but I do respect equal rights under the law of all our citizens. Basically California violated the laws of the Constitution. If I was jewish, budhist, hindu, athiest, etc... I'd be equally mad since basically the State is recognizing and respecting Christianity. They should demand that budhist and hindu laws be written into the Californian Constitution too!
The law as it stands gives enormous precedent for other Religions to put their "law" into the books.
This is the message we sent to the Gays and why Prop 8 passed. But there they are protesting away. Trying shove their lifestyle down the throats of people who don't agree with it. Like name calling is going to change anyone's mind.
Then stop calling us names and treating us like second class citizens. WE have the right to protest as you do. What other rights of ours would you like to abolish while you are at it? Are you willing to give us back the tax dollars we pay for the schools your kids go to.? When it comes to school bonds or acts, I usually say yes, I believe they deserve the best education that can be provided for.
I don't think the Yes vote on prop 8 is going to stand. I'm not gay... but I do respect equal rights under the law of all our citizens. Basically California violated the laws of the Constitution. If I was jewish, budhist, hindu, athiest, etc... I'd be equally mad since basically the State is recognizing and respecting Christianity. They should demand that budhist and hindu laws be written into the Californian Constitution too!
The law as it stands gives enormous precedent for other Religions to put their "law" into the books.
-chuck22b
Well said. I'm actually a lot more upset that the people that voted Yes treat the piece of paper that made this country (and the other piece of paper which was equally violated which made CA) what it is as a piece of toilet paper. Following the rules of the constitution and the system only when it's convenient is an extremely dangerous precedent.
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Let them deal with the adult world, traditional sex, gay sex, whatever! when they are adults. 
At the end of the day, California broke the law of the land
