The OFFICIAL Proposition 8 Thread: READ HERE FIRST (Montclair: baptist, cheap)

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

If I didnt understand the full context of something, I too would question it. Please don't take that as me being arrogant, Im just saying that many people don't understand where we are coming from on this issue, and I hear you on that.

In reality, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, along with the Roman Catholic Church and many Protestant Churches have the same fundamental beliefs regarding the origin and intent of marriage. All of these churches were part of a coalition that included several other organizations.

But because members of the Mormon Church in California donated a lot of money to the cause, suddenly they are singled out-even though the Church did not devise Prop 8, did not run Prop 8 and did not as an institution donate one penny to Prop 8.

Yet today, you'd think it was all a plot hatched in some dark room in the heart of Salt Lake City, when in fact, Prop 8 was born in Orange County(that's what I gathered from their website.)

Now, people are free to protest and I'm sure it gives them a way to release their anger and shock over their defeat, but to be honest, I know my church and its history, this current contraversy will as in times past, only serve to strengthen our resolve to uphold what we, along with other people of faith believe to be true. We don't flinch in the face of opposition and we don't back down.

All these protestors outside the LA Temple are doing is inconveniencing the neighbors and giving LAPD officers lots of overtime pay.

And as far as leaving California alone, Mormons have a very deep history in CA which goes all the way back to the Gold Rush. We have just as much a right to be here as anyone else.

Actually, I think Mormons are being targeted because no one likes them. The Christians only teamed up with them for Prop 8 but now they'll go back to looking down their noses at them. Frankly, I don't blame them. I find Mormonism to be about thisclose to being a cult. Really, when a Mormon writes a book criticizing the church leadership and is then kicked out, that's what I call a cult. When black people are considered evil and cursed up until the point the Mormon church is in danger of losing its tax exempt status and suddenly there is a "revelation from God" (through the church leader of course), that's what I call a cult. At least with Catholicism you can criticize the Pope and the church's positions to your heart's content. But hey, I'm just an intolerant No on 8 person, I pretty much dislike all religions equally. You guys all suck.

[krudmonk]

Mormons are actually a lot nicer than most Christians who live strictly by the book. I gave them a pass before this debacle. Even now, I know that not all are supportive of this ban.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

But hey, I'm just an intolerant No on 8 person

In a nutshell.

[CESpeed]

I haven't read any acceptance for the YES people from any NO person. I'm just reading post after post of venom and lack of tolerance for people who don't want their lives to change. I will repeat if Prop 8 only affected Homosexuals, it would not have passed.

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

In a nutshell.

At least I'm not a self-loathing gay person...

[happ]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

The real reason these people are protesting the Mormon Church is because its not socially acceptable and political suicide to protest against Blacks since they voted 75% in FAVOR of Prop 8. Its also not acceptable to protest against Catholics( 64% of them voted Yes on 8 as well) because there are 7 Million of them in CA and gays dont want to offend that many people-same as hispanics(who voted 50% Yes as well), a group that dominates LA.

Mormons are relatively small in number in CA(around 800,000), they are more often than not wealthier suburban whites(always the de facto enemy of any left leaning cause) and they are a religion(something many lefties already hate).

And so who are they going to attack? Blacks(DEFINITELY NOT), Catholics(NO), Hispanics(NO)..Who does that leave out of the strongest proponents of Prop 8? Hmmm...I wonder?

I don't agree with your suggestion that it is easier for gays to attack the Mormon church than the Catholic or evangelical churches. Mormons have been instrumental in anti-gay rights [not only in California but in other states]. Mormons funded over half the costs of Prop 8 yet, as you point out that Mormons account for a fraction the population. Mormons aren't very common at all in Florida yet funded their anti-gay initiative that deny gays from ever getting married in Florida. They had their parishioners in Utah fork over $30 million to stop people in California from getting married. Does that sound a little bizarre? A non-taxed political group can decide who can get married?

Yes, the Black Baptist ministers urged their people to vote against gay marriage. They had Christian school kids march in a rally on a school day to urge passage of the initiative. Some have suggested that Democratic politicians are responsible for this travesty. Even Obama could have addressed this issue & encourage the Baptists to not vote for Prop 8! But the Black Baptist churches in California tend to be very big & very influential among their community & they all vote Democratic down the line. They are responsible for putting a socialist on the 5-member county supervisors [as powerful as the mayor]. A man who urged them to vote for gay marriage. Blacks voted routine approval of everything Democratic except gay marriage!

Surprisingly most Catholics voted for gay marriage but many did not & followed the urging of Cardinal Mahony to deny happiness to maybe their own kids. Can't understand why the Knights of Columbus got involved in political issues but apparently they do since they pledge $250,000 to Prop 8. Latinos voted in favor of Prop 8 but only a little over 50%. So there is some responsibility the Catholic church needs to take especially since Los Angeles archdiocese of 4 million mostly Latino parishioners. But Catholics also preach against the Iraq war\ capital punishment\ economic justice\ care of the poor & most Catholics in California are Democratic. I think if gays demonstrate in front of the cathedral this Sunday the negative attention would embarrass the bishop [esp after the sensation of pedophile priests].

Evangelicals are less of a presence in Los Angeles but not in Orange & Kern counties where mega churches resemble something right out of the Bible Belt. These are the hard-core Republicans who voted at 86% against gay marriage [highest of any demographic group

Even LA county vote in favor of Prop 8 by less than a point though LA city voted against Prop 8. The gay community entirely underestimated the resistance to homosexuality & are mindful that civil rights took Blacks many many years. Sad day for California.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Mormons are actually a lot nicer than most Christians who live strictly by the book.

Well to be fair, we have plenty of jerks too.

I gave them a pass before this debacle.

Thanks eh. We're not as weird as most people think-peculiar perhaps.

Even now, I know that not all are supportive of this ban.

yup, many voted no.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

At least I'm not a self-loathing gay person...

Always so heartwarming.

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Always so heartwarming.

For sure.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by happ

They had their parishioners in Utah fork over $30 million.

Sorry, but this isnt true.

Around 90% of the money donated to the Yes on 8 Campaign from Members of the Mormon Church came from 59,000 Mormon Families who live in California.