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Nat, i think we discussed this before but maybe is worth to mention again.
I will give you my perspective from my "privileged" position of someone that is born and raised in Europe, lived in Canada and the US....trying to be as objective as possible...to make a long story short my opinion (also the same opinion of some other Canadians on this forum with living overseas experience and Europeans living in Canada) is that frankly you do not get that much "bang for your buck" in Canada for a more "active government" role in the economy and society, definitely not compared to the best western European countries. Canadian infrastructure is not that impressive (came back from Vancouver yesterday, the road system remain as atrocious as ever and the Skytrain is not going to impress anyone in Europe) so the social safety net is not impressive, again, compared to Europe nor is healthcare. For a significant cut in potential salary for an average professional, compared to the US, you do not get European level of infrastructure or services...and my salary back in the old continent was not that different from Canada....I was getting more "value from government spending" back there.
Public services are often broken in many parts of the U.S. due to lack of funding as the author accurately points out, but I am not sure he picked the right angle with infrastructure (especially transportation).
I've travelled quite a bit north and south and east and west in the U.S. over the past couple of years and I can't say their infrastructure is markedly more deficient than ours. There are good things and bad things on both sides of the border and whether one is better than the other depends on when and where you are looking.
Their airports may be on average less shiny new than ours but OTOH they are not saddled with some of the highest domestic airfares in the developed world due to a variety of factors.
Their highway and road systems are more expansive and overall are probably in better shape than ours. Yes, the 400-series highways in Ontario are in excellent shape and have good design standards, but look at rural highways and county roads in Ontario and compare them to those in New York, Pennsylvania. Plus many populated parts of Canada are still connected by two-lane roads. Places like Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie and Timmins would have been connected by four-lane divided Interstates ages ago.
Also, Mr. Kay lives in Toronto which in many areas is a jumble of overhead wires, rotting wooden tar-covered telephone poles, cracked weed-infested patched up sidewalks, rusted guardrails and ugly or non-existent street furniture. (My city is largely the same BTW. As is Otttawa.) In spite of this, I don't have anything against Toronto which is one of the world's up and coming cities, but in his place I wouldn't point fingers in terms of infrastructure.
Also, the main cities of the NE US are linked by ACELA fast rail which travels at 250 kmh. The best VIA can do in the Quebec-Windsor corridor is 150 kmh on some stretches.
I'm not debating their efficiency (whatever methodology they used to measure it in that study) within their job but the type of services and social safety net I receive for my tax dollars.
Public services are often broken in many parts of the U.S. due to lack of funding as the author accurately points out, but I am not sure he picked the right angle with infrastructure (especially transportation).
I've travelled quite a bit north and south and east and west in the U.S. over the past couple of years and I can't say their infrastructure is markedly more deficient than ours. There are good things and bad things on both sides of the border and whether one is better than the other depends on when and where you are looking.
Their airports may be on average less shiny new than ours but OTOH they are not saddled with some of the highest domestic airfares in the developed world due to a variety of factors.
Their highway and road systems are more expansive and overall are probably in better shape than ours. Yes, the 400-series highways in Ontario are in excellent shape and have good design standards, but look at rural highways and county roads in Ontario and compare them to those in New York, Pennsylvania. Plus many populated parts of Canada are still connected by two-lane roads. Places like Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie and Timmins would have been connected by four-lane divided Interstates ages ago.
Also, Mr. Kay lives in Toronto which in many areas is a jumble of overhead wires, rotting wooden tar-covered telephone poles, cracked weed-infested patched up sidewalks, rusted guardrails and ugly or non-existent street furniture. (My city is largely the same BTW. As is Otttawa.) In spite of this, I don't have anything against Toronto which is one of the world's up and coming cities, but in his place I wouldn't point fingers in terms of infrastructure.
Also, the main cities of the NE US are linked by ACELA fast rail which travels at 250 kmh. The best VIA can do in the Quebec-Windsor corridor is 150 kmh on some stretches.
I agree...when it come to services and infrastructure, on average nation wide I do not see Canada ahead of the US. Canada may be better than the US in some areas and vice versa.
Canada should focus on being North America's Norway rather than a more sensible USA. Focussing on eclipsing mediocrity isn't ambitious and limits Canada's potential to progress.
Nat, i think we discussed this before but maybe is worth to mention again.
I will give you my perspective from my "privileged" position of someone that is born and raised in Europe, lived in Canada and the US....trying to be as objective as possible...to make a long story short my opinion (also the same opinion of some other Canadians on this forum with living overseas experience and Europeans living in Canada) is that frankly you do not get that much "bang for your buck" in Canada for a more "active government" role in the economy and society, definitely not compared to the best western European countries. Canadian infrastructure is not that impressive (came back from Vancouver yesterday, the road system remain as atrocious as ever and the Skytrain is not going to impress anyone in Europe) so the social safety net is not impressive, again, compared to Europe nor is healthcare. For a significant cut in potential salary for an average professional, compared to the US, you do not get European level of infrastructure or services...and my salary back in the old continent was not that different from Canada....I was getting more "value from government spending" back there.
This isn't about Europe. We are comparing the US and Canada, but since you brought it up.
Canada, does amazingly well, considered we are the second largest country in the world, with the population of California.
Comparing Canada to the rest of the world is difficult. Australia might be the closest. Another country that is huge with a small population.
However, somehow, must be magic, Canada rates high on the things that matter. QOL and Standard of living. Our cities are rated along with European and Australian ones. The US...not so much.
Vancouver road systems? You mean freeways within the city? Compared to Seattle, the actual streets here seem better looked after. Also the city is trying to get people out of their cars. Within downtown, over 50 percent of trips are now on foot or bike. As the downtown population grows, making it better for cars isn't going to work.
Skytrain actually does get compliments and good marks from tourists from Europe. It's not London or Paris, but it does just as well as cities of it's size in Europe.
Lyon for example, a system I've used, has 32 K of track compared to 80 K of track for Skytrain. Plus ridership in Lyon is 38.5 million a year compared to Vancouver's Skytrain of 137.5 million per year. Pretty impressive I'd say.
Amsterdam another example I've used. Milan, again another I've used, is slightly larger than Vancouver, but to be expected since Milan's population is larger.
It is also the largest driverless rapid transit system in the world.
I know my friends from Europe think our transit in Vancouver is quite good and is getting better all the time.
So don't dismiss Skytrain so easily.
Last edited by Natnasci; 07-19-2017 at 12:04 PM..
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