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Kathryn, I don't know if this has been posted by someone else; I've read through the thread but sometimes my eyes glaze over and my attention wanders mid-post; so I'm going to say what I haven't noticed anyone else saying...
Your Mom's refusal to take her medicine could be because, like so many other mentally ill people, she takes the pills, she feels better, she thinks she's "cured" and sees no reason to take pills, she regresses and once again agrees to take the pills, and she feels better, she thinks she's cured...see?
Oh absolutely - this is exactly what's happening - and this choice is very common with mentally ill people of any age.
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As for waiting three days for the bus to church - I know she's been ready for church way early in the past but this time it's worse and you say she's actually missed two weeks. I wonder if it has something to do with her psych group of three times a week being cancelled and having nothing to make up for it. She knows that there's a social activity that she could be attending so without the group, she focuses on church attendance and is actually anxious to go there.
Yes I think you're right about this. Dang it, I hate they discontinued that program! However, when I met with them Friday, they did tell me that they were trying to get something similar up and running and would let me know the progression of that plan.
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I don't have any elderly people in my care except myself. I do think that your Mom's dementia runs deeper than you realize. And from my vantage point, I must wonder why the staff doesn't alert you to this strange behavior of waiting days on end for the bus to church.
I think her dementia has increased lately - in conjunction with skipping her meds as often as possible.
I didn't make this clear but the staff HAS alerted me to her behavior about waiting for the bus - but in their defense, she does a lot of this waiting in the privacy of her own apartment. And she is pretty slick about how she asks about it - she doesn't say to the staff "Where is the bus?" Instead, she says, "I'm just double checking - when exactly does the bus pick us up for church?" If they (or me, or anyone) says, "Well, that's not for three more days," she gets very haughty and says, "Of course I realize that - I was just wanting to be sure I was on the list." That sort of thing.
Honestly, she's very verbally strong and can be very articulate and convincing. Not that I fall for it - not when she's calling me at 2 am asking where I am!
The staff did tell me when she was wandering around at 2 am waiting for the bus, but she stopped doing that "in public" because she doesn't want to be "kicked out" of the facility.
In fact, just a couple of weeks ago the administrator called me and specifically told me that mom is doing much better. She is in many ways - she's keeping her apartment a lot cleaner and neater, she's not "bugging" the staff about "what time is it, what day is it, when is the bus coming" etc like she was doing. And WOW, she'e eating and sleeping SO much better - and she is no longer pacing around the facility in a manic state. So she's not missing many meals and when she does, she's making it up in the cafe. She's gained 30 pounds since she's been on her meds regularly (or sort of regularly).
What I think she's doing is trying to hang on as long as she can. So I think she's just avoiding conversation with the staff and with the other residents (sad) because she knows she will "give away" her level of confusion about dates and times. She really, really, really wants to keep living there.
It's so sad. I just can't understand why she insists on trying to keep from taking her meds when her physical health has improved so much. I can't understand why she can't connect sleeping and eating better, and being calmer, with the medications.
But I do think that in spite of the meds, her dementia is getting worse (the meds aren't for that anyway). So it's sad to me to think that even if she does comply (not likely) she will still end up being moved.
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I'm sorry that your brother's health issues are not resolved. I do hope that he and his SO have made their appointment with the minister or the JP or the county clerk to get the marital situation finalized. Prayers.
Thank you. And no, they are still not married! Oh well, I can't worry about that. They've been together for over 20 years , and their state does not recognize common law marriages, so all I can say is they must have their reasons that I don't know about, and they certainly don't owe me an explanation!
If some of you choose to continue arguing about phraseology and definitions and misconceptions and all that within the TOS, have at it, but I have made an executive decision as of this minute - today is the last day (and five minutes ago was the last minute) that I am going to spend trying to define terms and scenarios to regulars who I know have been following this saga with my mom.
I'm not saying that I won't explain something to someone with sincere questions, especially since this is a long thread and not everyone who comes along has kept up with things. I'm just not going to get defensive with regulars. It's a waste of my time and energy.
I'll tell you one thing: You do NOT want to get on A Place For Mom's email list. They'll spam you to death. I made that mistake awhile back and damn, never again! Do NOT give them your email addy or phone number. And naturally, they're one of those hideous websites where you can't get a single bit of information without providing your personal information. Just.Stay.Away.
But yes, they are correct, as I said several posts ago.
Thanks for mentioning this. Joan Lundon,from TV, does not even recognize her own age. I think she adopted children when she was 60+. She is of the opinion that if you deny how old you are, you are not old. That's B S.
Now, she's just a media *****.
It's so sad. I just can't understand why she insists on trying to keep from taking her meds when her physical health has improved so much. I can't understand why she can't connect sleeping and eating better, and being calmer, with the medications.
You do understand. You've posted the reasons many times. I really don't get the current level of drama over her fighting her meds again. It IS as though you have expected her to magically change. Suddenly realize she has an illness and needs to take them.
When we know, the ONLY thing that causes her to swallow those things is threat of losing that apartment. So just have the various people tell her again. I cannot fathom how you did not say anything to her new Dr knowing she needs authority figures to re-enforce this at every turn.
And when she begins to act anxious or manic, they'll just give her some Ativan - and then some more. Till she's quiet and cooperative (that will probably require the same dose you'd have to give a bull elephant in mating season).
OK, I found this. I don't understand. You're talking about like they do in psych hospitals? give her a shot? Oftentimes Haldol mixed with Ativan. I'm not sure about that. Even in psych hospitals, the patient gets the opportunity to take their regular meds before this happens. And they need a court order unless the patient is dangerous.
You do understand. You've posted the reasons many times. I really don't get the current level of drama over her fighting her meds again. It IS as though you have expected her to magically change. Suddenly realize she has an illness and needs to take them.
When we know, the ONLY thing that causes her to swallow those things is threat of losing that apartment. So just have the various people tell her again. I cannot fathom how you did not say anything to her new Dr knowing she needs authority figures to re-enforce this at every turn.
I DID say something to her new doctor. And he reiterated the ramifications of not taking her meds to her several times. I cannot fathom why you would assume I didn't do that or he didn't do that.
I understand her behaviors intellectually but emotionally it's difficult to watch someone do self destructive things. And no, I wasn't expecting her to "suddenly realize she has an illness and needs to take them." I was, however, hoping that she might connect the dots between her weight gain, her better sleeping habits, her calmness, and the meds. I know - maybe that was pie in the sky but hey, sometimes it happens. It happened with my brother. He's a believer now and loves what his meds do to improve his life.
The reason for the "current level of drama" is that she is already "on probation" regarding her ability to stay in her apartment. If she gets off her meds again, or has a more significant uptick in her confusion levels, she is going to lose that apartment - that could be very soon. That's why it's dramatic to me at this point. It's imminent. Not theoretical.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 09-11-2017 at 06:58 PM..
PS I was curious about anti-anxiety med because you said in Memory Care they'd give her that. Ativan, I think, was the specific one you mentioned.
And that's why I explained to you why she isn't currently on an anti anxiety meds, which is what you asked. Hope I was able to clear things up for you.
OK, I found this. I don't understand. You're talking about like they do in psych hospitals? give her a shot? Oftentimes Haldol mixed with Ativan. I'm not sure about that. Even in psych hospitals, the patient gets the opportunity to take their regular meds before this happens. And they need a court order unless the patient is dangerous.
No, I'm not talking about them giving her a shot, or doing "like they do in psych hospitals." Ativan is a very commonly prescribed anti anxiety medication that is prescribed as needed to many elderly patients in many different settings, in pill form. It's not relegated to psych hospitals or memory care units or anything like that. It's a common anti anxiety drug.
I have been told by her psychiatrist and her general practitioner that she has the right to refuse to take her anti psychotic meds. So I don't expect anyone to force her to take them, and I have no plans of pursuing a court order for her to take them.
So if she chooses not to take them and her anxiety increases (as it has done in the past) I don't expect any facility to try to force her to take a regimen of seroquel, which takes two weeks to kick in, if she is extremely anxious. They will just stand in front of her and try to convince her to take Ativan or something like that. And she'll probably end up taking it and it won't have at all the same positive effects that regular seroquel would have.
No, I'm not talking about them giving her a shot, or doing "like they do in psych hospitals." Ativan is a very commonly prescribed anti anxiety medication that is prescribed as needed to many elderly patients in many different settings, in pill form. It's not relegated to psych hospitals or memory care units or anything like that. It's a common anti anxiety drug.
I have been told by her psychiatrist and her general practitioner that she has the right to refuse to take her anti psychotic meds. So I don't expect anyone to force her to take them, and I have no plans of pursuing a court order for her to take them.
So if she chooses not to take them and her anxiety increases (as it has done in the past) I don't expect any facility to try to force her to take a regimen of seroquel, which takes two weeks to kick in, if she is extremely anxious. They will just stand in front of her and try to convince her to take Ativan or something like that. And she'll probably end up taking it and it won't have at all the same positive effects that regular seroquel would have.
I'm sorry, but that really doesn't make any sense. You said they'd give her some, and then some more. Enough for a bull. Exactly like in a psych hospital. If they were going to bother to convince her to take something, they'd convince her to take her regular meds, and if they can convince her to take anything, she wouldn't need to be there.
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And when she begins to act anxious or manic, they'll just give her some Ativan - and then some more. Till she's quiet and cooperative (that will probably require the same dose you'd have to give a bull elephant in mating season).
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