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I don't like laws that force business owners to comply with such things as smoking vs. non-smoking, either . . . it should be up to the business owner what type of patron he/she wishes to serve . . . but as with most things in this country today, it seems the majority want to make a law to answer every possible variation on behavior, Hee Hee.
However, it does keep maintenance down not to have smokers in an establishment. No ash trays, butts, smoke . . . so it is actually easier/cheaper for the restaurant/bar owner if no one smokes in the establishment. But owners could have banned smoking at any time on their own . . .
The problem in Mecklenburg County is that many large establishments that should be smokeless aren't. Unfortunately, many of these are establishments where children are allowed to enter. Bars for smokers are fine, but since most people do not smoke, most establishments should not allow smoking. But, that would never work out. In California, many restaurant/bars have a smokers bar attached that is completely independent of the rest of the place. That would have worked, but it wasn't presented. If they can stop smoking in pubs in the U.K., Ireland and other European countries where practically everyone smokes, we can deal with it too.
The problem in Mecklenburg County is that many large establishments that should be smokeless aren't. Unfortunately, many of these are establishments where children are allowed to enter. Bars for smokers are fine, but since most people do not smoke, most establishments should not allow smoking. But, that would never work out. In California, many restaurant/bars have a smokers bar attached that is completely independent of the rest of the place. That would have worked, but it wasn't presented. If they can stop smoking in pubs in the U.K., Ireland and other European countries where practically everyone smokes, we can deal with it too.
I can't think of a single place where this law would change our eating habits, and we have two young daughters and eat out frequently.
Vin, you shouldn't really be dragging your children into bars late at night, just my opinion obviously.
IMHO, let the proprietors decide their desired clientele.
I don't feel that I should be restricted from going to any public establishment just because someone is not smart enough to take care of his/her own health or considerate enough to care about others.
And that's it right there - YOU do not feel that YOU should have restrictions imposed upon you. And that justifies a law that takes away the ability of the owner of a privately-owned establishment which is open to the public from deciding what legal activities are (or are not) allowed inside their place of business?
Without this law, bars and restaurants are free to choose whether or not they choose to be non-smoking or allow smoking. This then allows patrons to choose which establishments they prefer to patronize and those which they do not. With this law, it allows people like yourself to be selfish and say, "I should get to go anywhere I want and be in the type of environment that I prefer," instead of deciding for yourself, "I do not like to be around smokers, therefore, I will go to bar A instead of bar B." And that is what it is, pure and simple - selfishness. To cloak it within the context of public health is just a smoke-screen (pardon the pun).
I'll admit - I am a smoker. But if I go to a local bar like, for example, the Red Lion - I know its non-smoking and if I want to have a smoke, I'll step outside. No big deal - I'm ok with that. On the other hand, if it is cold outside (or for whatever other reason) I would like to have a smoke or two while I am sitting at a bar having a drink, I know I can choose to not go to the Lion and go to a place that does allow smoking, like Mac's. But the key here is that I have a choice (as does everyone else) of where to go or not go, and this law essentially does away with that ability to choose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo
Look at it this way, there is more room for smoking outside than inside.
True. And I bet within a few months of this law going into effect, people will be complaining about having to walk through all of the smokers outside the doors in order to get inside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo
Laws are created when the majority of citizens are threatened or affected by the wrongful acts of the minority and a higher authority has to step in to protect the majority. Thank god for democracy.
That sounds all feel-good, middle school government class and what-not, but I would bet that not every law on the books (at any level of government) is weighted towards the "majority" (and FYI, we do not live in a "democracy", we live in a "democratic republic" - there is a distinction).
But let's roll with that. The public is affected by costs related to healthcare of obese individuals. So let's pass a law saying that if your BMI is over a certain weight, you are not allowed inside a fast-food joint - because if you eat another Big Mac, you're just getting fatter, and clogging those arteries a bit more and, at the end of the day, the rest of us are going to have to pay for your health care. Based on your logic, I assume you would fully support a law controlling the caloric intake of fat people. Let's start a petition to get that law on the books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo
And, as far as the two of us having to make grown-up decisions, we did when we decided not to smoke. Guess you missed the boat?
Aside from the fact that you seem to be confusing the distinction between a "choice" and a "decision", you chose not to smoke - bully for you. I still fail to understand how that gives you the moral high-ground in dictating what the best decisions are for the populace as a whole.
The problem in Mecklenburg County is that many large establishments that should be smokeless aren't. Unfortunately, many of these are establishments where children are allowed to enter. Bars for smokers are fine, but since most people do not smoke, most establishments should not allow smoking. But, that would never work out. In California, many restaurant/bars have a smokers bar attached that is completely independent of the rest of the place. That would have worked, but it wasn't presented. If they can stop smoking in pubs in the U.K., Ireland and other European countries where practically everyone smokes, we can deal with it too.
That has always surprised me - the ban on smoking in Europe. I just cannot imagine the French giving up their Gauloises cigs, lol. I bought some the first time I went to France - Guess it was an Edith Piaf moment. I wanted to sit at a bistro w/ my cafe au lait, smoking a Gauloises . . .
That has always surprised me - the ban on smoking in Europe. I just cannot imagine the French giving up their Gauloises cigs, lol. I bought some the first time I went to France - Guess it was an Edith Piaf moment. I wanted to sit at a bistro w/ my cafe au lait, smoking a Gauloises . . .
Ani, I recently spent two weeks in France/Belgium and I don't know what Europeans think the law is, but people were smoking IN restaurants/cafes and no one was doing anything to curtail such behavior.
Neither was anyone showing much annoyance even during breakfast hrs in a busy St Lazare cafe.
I don't feel that I should be restricted from going to any public establishment just because someone is not smart enough to take care of his/her own health or considerate enough to care about others. Look at it this way, there is more room for smoking outside than inside. Lets face it, who smokes these days? A very small minority.
Laws are created when the majority of citizens are threatened or affected by the wrongful acts of the minority and a higher authority has to step in to protect the majority. Thank god for democracy. And, as far as the two of us having to make grown-up decisions, we did when we decided not to smoke. Guess you missed the boat?
First of all, you were never restricted from going anywhere... Second of all, how does other people smoking affect you?
I think these kinds of things are best decided by the business owner.
When it gets down to the fact that others' choice to engage in something legal in an establishment negatively affects someone else's health, then yes there should be the ability to regulate that and prohibit that from happening. To say that non-smokers should just not visit a restaurant that has a smoking section is silly. We have the right to go to an establishment and not be subjected to second hand smoke. Regardless if there is a little partition "separating" the sections, you are still exposed to the smoke nearly the same as far as second hand smoke is concerned.
Just to give an idea:
"Secondhand smoke can cause harm in many ways. In the United States alone, each year it is responsible for:
an estimated 46,000 deaths from heart disease in non-smokers who live with smokers
about 3,400 lung cancer deaths in non-smoking adults
other breathing problems in non-smokers, including coughing, mucus, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function
150,000 to 300,000 lung infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations annually
increases in the number and severity of asthma attacks in about 200,000 to 1 million children who have asthma
more than 750,000 middle ear infections in children
Pregnant women exposed to secondhand smoke are also at increased risk of having low birth- weight babies"
Ani, I recently spent two weeks in France/Belgium and I don't know what Europeans think the law is, but people were smoking IN restaurants/cafes and no one was doing anything to curtail such behavior.
Neither was anyone showing much annoyance even during breakfast hrs in a busy St Lazare cafe.
Actually, that is what friends have relayed to me. I have heard things are much stricter in London, tho. But again . . . perhaps folks were in tour groups or sticking close to restaurants that cater to tourists. My parents, for ex., are terribly bothered by even vestigial smoke in a room, and so check out all that b/f they travel in Europe, so I am sure some people are adamant about finding hotels/restaurants that do not allow smoking.
Just has never been a concern to me, especially since I did my own research on the incidence of cancer amongst smokers vs. non-smokers. Now, for folks like my parents (asthma) smoke as well as many other types of particulates are gonna always be a health issue.
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