Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Vindaloo, it's been said again and agai, but I guess it's worth repeating. No one is forcing you to go to places that allow smoking, and someones place of business isn't your "personal space".
A person can make personal choices and I support that. If they choose to live in an unhealthy manner by smoking, drugs, or whatever, that is their personal choice and fine with me. When I am forced to endure the smoke from someone's cigarette, it is an invasion of my personal space and an infringement on my rights to live in a healthy/safe envorionment.
I can respect that. But my response then becomes: how are you "forced" to endure their smoking? Establishment A allows smoking and establishment B is non-smoking. If you choose to go into A instead of B, then no one is forcing you to endure the smoke in the air. Instead, you have made a conscious decision to put yourself into that situation where you are exposed to smoke - you see people smoking, you don't like it, don't go in - its that simple. You could just as easily choose to go into B and not have to deal with it. Why can't you go to B and let the smokers have A? Why should both places be forced to cater to your preference over those of others? And more to the point, why should the owner of one place be forced out of making that choice of what to allow in their privately owned establishment?
I am all for banning smoking in public areas where people congregate or pass through (parks, bus stops, etc.), and for the reasons that you have stated in your arguments. But a bar or restaurant is not a public place - it is a privately owned establishment into which members of the public may enter if they so choose. You are not forced to be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo
Acording to your philosophy we must be socialist because we have laws preventing us from driving drunk, beating our wives, playing our stereos at full blast at 2:00am, speeding in neighborhoods, snoking crack, running red lights, throwing garbage in the street, etc.? Laws are created when the general good, safety and welfare of citizens is not protected.
That argument is spurious (at least in part). You do not know if that guy driving down the road is drunk. You have no control over that individual speeding by your house at 2:00 AM blasting their music. You do not know if someone is going to run that red light and crash into you. If someone is beating their wife (or husband) the victim is likely being forced to be there. In other words - these are incidents over which you have no control, and laws are in place to help protect the populace from such situations. With regards to smoking in a bar: You can see it. You can be aware of the situation in advance. And with that knowledge, you can choose to avoid it (knowledge is power!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo
Lets face it, the only people that are going to say that smoking doesn't harm others are smokers that are "hooked".
Maybe so - but the effects of smoking have nothing to do with this discussion. This is not a health issue, nor is it about the rights of smokers or non-smokers. It is about the rights of business owners to decide how to operate their privately-owned establishments - that's it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo
I gurantee that in two months you won't even worry about it. It really isn't going to be as bad as you anticipate.
As a smoker, I don't worry about it. I have no issue going to smoke-free places, and do so frequently. In fact, I prefer to not be around people smoking when eating meals. And in my house, if anyone wants to smoke (myself included) - you take it outside. But that's my house, my rules - which is as it should be for the bar and restaurant owners.
Actually - I do have one small complaint about some of our local smoke-free bars now that I think about it: People down here do not seem to realize that, when a full or partially-full beverage is sitting on a bar with a coaster placed on the top of the glass, that means the person sitting there has stepped away for a moment (to have a smoke outside, or use the bathroom, whatever) and will be returning momentarily. In other words - it is not an open seat for you to take.
I bet a lot of folks would not mind the "smokers" if the smokers were smoking weed instead of tobacco. I find it amusing how many people will scream bloody murder over cigarette smoke only to happily sneak a toke at home.
But not to get off subject . . . I know the law is gonna be changed and I know that most folks are fine with that, but as a business owner, I just can't help but feel that at some point - all the over-regulation in this country is gonna beat down entrepreneurs til it just doesn't even make sense to try to own one's own business.
Vindaloo, it's been said again and agai, but I guess it's worth repeating. No one is forcing you to go to places that allow smoking, and someones place of business isn't your "personal space".
I know that it is complicated, but the area within a foot or two of my body is my "personal space". Hey, I'm not concerned. Just three weeks and you can be the one annoyed.
I bet a lot of folks would not mind the "smokers" if the smokers were smoking weed instead of tobacco. I find it amusing how many people will scream bloody murder over cigarette smoke only to happily sneak a toke at home.
But not to get off subject . . . I know the law is gonna be changed and I know that most folks are fine with that, but as a business owner, I just can't help but feel that at some point - all the over-regulation in this country is gonna beat down entrepreneurs til it just doesn't even make sense to try to own one's own business.
Hummmm! Good point. My wife never lets me toke in the house. Anni, if they will ban cell phones while driving, I will be happy if we don't get any more laws.
In reality, it goes far beyond me not wanting to be around smoke. There are thousands of people with asthema and other respritory diseases are not permitted to go into places because of smoke. And it is true that there are places that are smokeless, but if a person lives in a part of town that where all of the restaurants and bars allow smoking, they are screwed. Smoking is something that isn't neccessary or can be done outside. As a former teacher, a huge percentage of my students had health problems that are aggrivated by smoke. We really need to be considerate and accomidating to everyone. Besides, Obama will be proud of you. And we all want that. Right?? Oh yea, he smokes. Forget it. Looks like Michelle needs to get out and do some exercise. That ole but is getting pretty big. Oh, sorry, what were we talking about?
this thread is (as were all the previous ones on this topic) really annoying.
the ban goes into effect whether you or I like it or not.
I can't wait for bars to be smoke free.
I also can't wait until 2 weeks after the ban when just about everyone says how much they love it and how it is a win win for everyone. Including business owners.
I bet a lot of folks would not mind the "smokers" if the smokers were smoking weed instead of tobacco. I find it amusing how many people will scream bloody murder over cigarette smoke only to happily sneak a toke at home.
But not to get off subject . . . I know the law is gonna be changed and I know that most folks are fine with that, but as a business owner, I just can't help but feel that at some point - all the over-regulation in this country is gonna beat down entrepreneurs til it just doesn't even make sense to try to own one's own business.
I have to chime in here b/c this made me laugh. I mind if they are smoking anything around me, but cigarettes especially bother me. My mom and stepdad used to smoke and when I stayed at their house I would be up all night coughing and congested. My mom heard me one night and decided not to smoke in the house anymore b/c she finally realized that it actually affected my health. On the very rare occasions that I go out to a bar I can barely breathe the next day and my lungs wheeze for days after. Maybe I'm just one of those people who are more sensitive, but I am really, really happy about the ban and the chance to go to some of our favorite places that we usually avoid, and try some new ones as well.
p.s. Ani, you know weed doesn't smell anything like tobacco smoke, right? I mean, not like any of us really know.
It's all about choices ... my husband returned from Vietnam and proceeded to try and drink himself to death ... in 1986 he took his last drink and has lived One Day At A Time since then ... we stayed away from any place that served alcohol for years, our choice, our decision, no county or state law telling us what we had to do ... nothing wrong with people having a drink ... unless one has a problem ... thus we stayed away ... those that don't want to be around smokers can stay away too. My problem with the smoking band is ..... the government doesn't need to hold our hands ... North Carolina recently passed 50 new LAWS ...
I live across the border and recently York County and the City passed a smoking ban ... mayhem, violence, havoc reigns ... we have had home invasions, people at ATMs being robbed, drug stores broke into ... but these officers caught those 'smokers' ... even though they didn't know the ordinance number and the name the bar goes by now. Something is wrong with this picture.
POLICE CATCH SMOKERS IN BAR
By Kimberly Dick - The Herald
Police caught several people smoking inside a Rock Hill bar Wednesday, a violation of the current smoking ban laws. But police didn’t cite the smokers or the East Main Street bar because the officers didn’t have the ordinance number to write a citation, according to a Rock Hill police report.
The violation is an administrative charge, said Rock Hill Police Lt. Brad Redfearn, so it's not written on a state citation like other offenses.
In an unmarked car, police pulled up to a bar located at 1474 E. Main St., formerly known as The Crow-Bar, just before midnight Wednesday and saw people inside smoking and full ashtrays on the table, the report states.
The name of the bar is not available at this time.
Officers made the patrons inside the club put out their cigarettes, but didn't issue a citation at the time of the report.
In Rock Hill, the fine can for smoking can be up to $25 for businesses and individuals, according to Herald archives.
The case is still under investigation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Anni, if they will ban cell phones while driving, I will be happy if we don't get any more laws.
