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"In reality, it goes far beyond me not wanting to be around smoke. There are thousands of people with asthema and other respritory diseases are not permitted to go into places because of smoke. And it is true that there are places that are smokeless, but if a person lives in a part of town that where all of the restaurants and bars allow smoking, they are screwed. Smoking is something that isn't neccessary or can be done outside. As a former teacher, a huge percentage of my students had health problems that are aggrivated by smoke. We really need to be considerate and accomidating to everyone. Besides, Obama will be proud of you. And we all want that. Right?? Oh yea, he smokes. Forget it. Looks like Michelle needs to get out and do some exercise. That ole but is getting pretty big. Oh, sorry, what were we talking about?"
I'm sorry I don't usually chime in on these trainwreck threads, but"when someone states "as a former teacher" like it makes you an authority on a particular subject - Vindaloo, please use spell check, spelling errors just make you look foolish! Oh, and by the way, taking cheap shots at our president and his family is just tacky - "as a former teacher" I would think you would want to set an example and be respectful of the office of the President of the United States, IMHO...
Last edited by D2C21GC; 12-11-2009 at 05:01 PM..
Reason: My own spelling errors - OOPs!!
I have read the info WHO puts out, too. And my first question is always - "based on what?" Cancer rates? What other factors were considered? A person w/ no access to antibiotics who dies of pneumonia but happened to live around a smoker died b/c of the secondhand smoke or died b/c he/she had improper/lack of treatment for pneumonia?
Again, not interested in arguing - I am just one small research voice out here and I know folks don't listen to what I have to say in comparison to what WHO or ACS prints. But I do believe most folks understand that anyone can take stats and come up with very different interpretations, based on what factors are being considered (and which are being left out).
For example, the facts are . . . lung cancer rates are about identical between non-smokers and smokers. This does not comport well with the anti-smoking campaigns across the globe. Research suggests that folks who get lung cancer have a specific gene . . . but if ACS and WHO focused on THAT rather than . . . well, I think you can see where we go from there. "Fighting" cancer must start at the genetic level, not with popular campaigns that bring in contributions.
But again . . . not trying to argue b/c I know I am not about to convince anyone that the whole debate on second-hand smoke is a ruse (as far as cancer rates) . . . not in any way trying to minimize that there are folks who, when exposed to cigarette smoke, can go into asthmatic response, which for some people could mean a life and death situation.
Edited to add: And also, not trying to minimize what NANCY relayed about cigarette smoke being a migraine trigger. Cigarette smoke also permeates fabric, leaving odors and can leave residue on hard surfaces. It is, quite frankly, nasty.
I am not extolling the virtues of smoking, lol, or trying to minimize the real problems with smoke itself. My point is simply that anti-smoking campaigns (involving lots of $$$) have been created touting second-hand smoke as the World's Most Detrimental Carcinogen and Cause of Bizillions of Deaths simply because a group of folks don't feel the business owners have the right to run their businesses as they choose and cater to the patrons they wish to have in their establishments. And that is what I object to. I find it unthinkable that the government would dictate the behavior of patrons - that should be up to the business owner.
And it sets a nasty precedent. What's next? Weigh in at the door and if someone's weight doesn't fit the established weight charts for "normal weight" . . . the business owner is supposed to turn them away? Or hand them a low-cal menu?
Or start putting a premium tax on food/drink that has xx amount of sugar/carbs in them? Like soft drinks? Ice cream? Big Macs? Where does it stop?
I can cite figures for cardiac deaths and attribute the cause to bad diet . . . and guess what? Those stats would be HIGHER than the ones for second-hand smoke deaths that ACS is so fond of tossing about. So where is the outrage?
No way lung cancer rates could be identical in smokers and nonsmokers. The majority of lung cancer cases are smokers. Yes, there are cases of nonsmokers getting it...but probably due to secondhand smoke! Also, things like someone's eating habits that cause their own health problems...are just that, issues that solely (from a PERSONAL HEALTH standpoint) affect the person involved. Smoking is not one of those types of issues, as it can affect others' health in addition to the person involved doing it.
"In reality, it goes far beyond me not wanting to be around smoke. There are thousands of people with asthema and other respritory diseases are not permitted to go into places because of smoke. And it is true that there are places that are smokeless, but if a person lives in a part of town that where all of the restaurants and bars allow smoking, they are screwed. Smoking is something that isn't neccessary or can be done outside. As a former teacher, a huge percentage of my students had health problems that are aggrivated by smoke. We really need to be considerate and accomidating to everyone. Besides, Obama will be proud of you. And we all want that. Right?? Oh yea, he smokes. Forget it. Looks like Michelle needs to get out and do some exercise. That ole but is getting pretty big. Oh, sorry, what were we talking about?"
I'm sorry I don't usually chime in on these trainwreck threads, but"when someone states "as a former teacher" like it makes you an authority on a particular subject - Vindaloo, please use spell check, spelling errors just make you look foolish! Oh, and by the way, taking cheap shots at our president and his family is just tacky - "as a former teacher" I would think you would want to set an example and be respectful of the office of the President of the United States, IMHO...
Since you made if obvious that I had a couple of typos and we are on the topic of grammar, I would like to point out your mistakes. What is up with the quotation mark after "but" in the first sentence? In the second sentence, why do you use the word "like" after teacher. Are you a Valley Girl? A question should start with a interrogative word like where, what, when, who, or how. In your fifth sentence, you spell "president" with a lower case "p". Since we are talking about the President of the U.S., we use an upper case "P". I will start using spell check if you practice language arts.
P.S. I keep politics out of teaching. I am sure that my respect for your President is equal to the respect you had for the former President. By the way, I do have respect for the office of the President of the U.S., just not always the person. But, I did teach my students about freedom of expression and speech.
Hummmm! Good point. My wife never lets me toke in the house. Anni, if they will ban cell phones while driving, I will be happy if we don't get any more laws.
HEE HEE HEE!!! Yes, ban the cell phones and dear lord - PLEASE tell me folks don't really TEXT while driving (but I know they do!!! People admit to me they do it! I would wreck my car within 5 seconds if I tried to text and drive!!!)
this thread is (as were all the previous ones on this topic) really annoying.
the ban goes into effect whether you or I like it or not.
I can't wait for bars to be smoke free.
I also can't wait until 2 weeks after the ban when just about everyone says how much they love it and how it is a win win for everyone. Including business owners.
I have to chime in here b/c this made me laugh. I mind if they are smoking anything around me, but cigarettes especially bother me. My mom and stepdad used to smoke and when I stayed at their house I would be up all night coughing and congested. My mom heard me one night and decided not to smoke in the house anymore b/c she finally realized that it actually affected my health. On the very rare occasions that I go out to a bar I can barely breathe the next day and my lungs wheeze for days after. Maybe I'm just one of those people who are more sensitive, but I am really, really happy about the ban and the chance to go to some of our favorite places that we usually avoid, and try some new ones as well.
p.s. Ani, you know weed doesn't smell anything like tobacco smoke, right? I mean, not like any of us really know.
LOL! Me? Grow up in the hippy era . . . and know anything about pot?
Lots of folks are extremely sensitive to cigarette smoke - it is not an exaggeration when people say just a whiff and they can have a terrible allergic reaction or an asthma attack.
You know I love to play devil's advocate - b/c I see this as the gov't creating punitive laws that affect the rights of business owners. But we all knew it was gonna happen eventually. Frankly, I am surprised it took this long! Where I lived previously, smoking even in parking lots outside of businesses was banned about 10 years ago. So folks there were not standing around outside of establishments and smoking.
Air quality is a big issue, even WITHOUT cigarette smoke.
I am for legalizing marijuana and having it regulated by the state, much like alcohol, which would raise revenue for the states and also guarantee the purity of the pot people are buying. Plus, it decriminalizes the act. So in light of that . . . I couldn't help but ask the question . . . cause I wonder how uptight folks would be about toking away at a bar as opposed to smoking cigs, Hee Hee.
Since you made if obvious that I had a couple of typos and we are on the topic of grammar, I would like to point out your mistakes. What is up with the quotation mark after "but" in the first sentence? In the second sentence, why do you use the word "like" after teacher. Are you a Valley Girl? A question should start with a interrogative word like where, what, when, who, or how. In your fifth sentence, you spell "president" with a lower case "p". Since we are talking about the President of the U.S., we use an upper case "P". I will start using spell check if you practice language arts.
It is interesting in that, in this entire thread (which you started) you choose to pick out someone's grammatical mistakes, yet you ignore every question posed to you regarding the issue at hand. I guess that is what happens when someone cannot construct either a logical argument or response...just divert the issue on to something else.
In reality, it goes far beyond me not wanting to be around smoke. There are thousands of people with asthema and other respritory diseases are not permitted to go into places because of smoke. And it is true that there are places that are smokeless, but if a person lives in a part of town that where all of the restaurants and bars allow smoking, they are screwed. Smoking is something that isn't neccessary or can be done outside. As a former teacher, a huge percentage of my students had health problems that are aggrivated by smoke. We really need to be considerate and accomidating to everyone. Besides, Obama will be proud of you. And we all want that. Right?? Oh yea, he smokes. Forget it. Looks like Michelle needs to get out and do some exercise. That ole but is getting pretty big. Oh, sorry, what were we talking about?
I don't know what Obama has to do with this thread.
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Oh, and by the way, taking cheap shots at our president and his family is just tacky - "as a former teacher" I would think you would want to set an example and be respectful of the office of the President of the United States, IMHO...
A question should start with a interrogative word like where, what, when, who, or how. In your fifth sentence, you spell "president" with a lower case "p". Since we are talking about the President of the U.S., we use an upper case "P". I will start using spell check if you practice language arts. 
By the way, I do have respect for the office of the President of the U.S., just not always the person. But, I did teach my students about freedom of expression and speech.
