Is Berwyn truly integrated, or are we experiencing white flight? (Chicago: how much, house)

[BRU67]

Assuming a 10 year old today will live until approximately 2085, it is really not in his or her ultimate best interest to be in a status quo where a large and growing number of low income students are sequestered in schools where they are not getting skills necessary to be part of a competitive information age workforce. Unless things change, and fast, said child will be completely surrounded by a third world caliper workforce by the time he is 40 or so. Something to think about anyway.

[JTW2013]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Assuming a 10 year old today will live until approximately 2085, it is really not in his or her ultimate best interest to be in a status quo where a large and growing number of low income students are sequestered in schools where they are not getting skills necessary to be part of a competitive information age workforce. Unless things change, and fast, said child will be completely surrounded by a third world caliper workforce by the time he is 40 or so. Something to think about anyway.

I agree with you but for things to change, every parent in our situation would have to make the same decision and that's not going to happen.

Our society is not going to make the big changes necessary to make things better so why should I sacrifice my kids?

As an upper middle class family, there won't be much capital to pass along to our kids after we're gone. We can give them a good education and middle class values but no big inheritance. Which is why, if we were still in the Chicago area, we looked at Downers Grove and Wheaton and not Berwyn.

Honestly - it's pull up the drawbridge time for middle class and upper middle class parents. And if you have liberal guilt, give to the Big Shoulders Fund so some kids left back in the dysfunction can make it to the shore.

[flamadiddle]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Assuming a 10 year old today will live until approximately 2085, it is really not in his or her ultimate best interest to be in a status quo where a large and growing number of low income students are sequestered in schools where they are not getting skills necessary to be part of a competitive information age workforce. Unless things change, and fast, said child will be completely surrounded by a third world caliper workforce by the time he is 40 or so. Something to think about anyway.

Why is it not in their best interest?

I don't understand the logic that we should dumb down the best and brightest so that the rest of the pack can somehow fit in? Why are they not getting the skills they need? Is it due to bad teachers, no books or supplies, decrepit school buildings? or maybe these low income kids (and their disconnected parents) need to look in the mirror, take some responsibility and make themselves successful regardless of the school. Look, I went to Bloom High School, which should make me a third world moron by your accounts, but I'm not. I turned out to be very successful despite being forced to go to a school with some of the lowest rankings in the state. Why is that? Why can't the majority of these low income students do the same? What I'm trying to say is quit trying to blame the problem on higher performing students and start pinning the blame where it belongs. They need to look in the mirror, there is the problem, now how do we fix that? I'm not pretending to have all the answers, but I think many posters here are missing the forest for the trees.

[JTW2013]

Originally Posted by flamadiddle

Why is it not in their best interest?

I don't understand the logic that we should dumb down the best and brightest so that the rest of the pack can somehow fit in? Why are they not getting the skills they need? Is it due to bad teachers, no books or supplies, decrepit school buildings? or maybe these low income kids (and their disconnected parents) need to look in the mirror, take some responsibility and make themselves successful regardless of the school. Look, I went to Bloom High School, which should make me a third world moron by your accounts, but I'm not. I turned out to be very successful despite being forced to go to a school with some of the lowest rankings in the state. Why is that? Why can't the majority of these low income students do the same? What I'm trying to say is quit trying to blame the problem on higher performing students and start pinning the blame where it belongs. They need to look in the mirror, there is the problem, now how do we fix that? I'm not pretending to have all the answers, but I think many posters here are missing the forest for the trees.

It's not "dumbing down" the best students to provide better opportunities for everyone. Here is an interesting article discussing desegregation in the Louisville, KY area. The City That Believed in Desegregation - The Atlantic

CPS would definitely benefit if there were middle class and upper middle class children in their schools. I admit that as a parent who chose not to place her kids in CPS. And a Cook County school district that encompassed Chicago, Berwyn and Wilmette would probably benefit every kid in Cook County (ironically probably even the kids in Wilmette). But that's a pipe dream.

[BRU67]

Give it 10 years. I bet you if somebody proposes borderless integrated schools at that point, many voters will be pretty receptive to the idea. That's because the demographics in this country are shifting rapidly towards low income. The numbers will be there to get something like this actually set up. Hopefully by then it's not too late.

[oakparkdude]

This topic is pretty much a classic "prisoner's dilemma" scenario.

[RogerMarrino]

Originally Posted by flamadiddle

Why is it not in their best interest?

I don't understand the logic that we should dumb down the best and brightest so that the rest of the pack can somehow fit in? Why are they not getting the skills they need? Is it due to bad teachers, no books or supplies, decrepit school buildings? or maybe these low income kids (and their disconnected parents) need to look in the mirror, take some responsibility and make themselves successful regardless of the school. Look, I went to Bloom High School, which should make me a third world moron by your accounts, but I'm not. I turned out to be very successful despite being forced to go to a school with some of the lowest rankings in the state. Why is that? Why can't the majority of these low income students do the same? What I'm trying to say is quit trying to blame the problem on higher performing students and start pinning the blame where it belongs. They need to look in the mirror, there is the problem, now how do we fix that? I'm not pretending to have all the answers, but I think many posters here are missing the forest for the trees.

Your beef is with minorities who, in your opinion, unfairly blame the public school system for their own cultural failings.

My beef is with hypocritical white yuppies who pretend to be good little leftists from the safety of their de facto segregated communities. I would wager that a fairly high percentage of them think just like you, but they submerge their darker thoughts behind a thick layer of euphemistic language. Blacks and Hispanics are 'low-income residents'. Hispanic students are 'ESL'. Black and Hispanic neighborhoods are 'undesirable neighborhoods'.

George Carlin did a great bit about 'soft language' that neatly sums up what I'm struggling to say. Do a Youtube search and you'll find it.

[ToriaT]

JTW2013 you make some very valid points here. Everything you say could have applied to me many years ago. And to be honest, as much as I love Chicago, and Berwyn (for certain people) I will never live there. Because I don't have to, and I can afford something else, or because I would be tired of the crime, congestion, lack of parking, poor city services in the city of Chicago. Berwyn is a good choice for a certain demographic like my son. It may not suit him long term.

One reason Hispanics have flocked to Berwyn besides reasonable housing and lower crime is the schools are better than CPS schools. Also its close to the Chicago communities they probably have come from. Despite the schools being better than most CPS, they are not good enough to satisfy upper middle class parents. And the old vintage housing stock in Berwyn that thrills some, merely seems antiquated and does not fulfill their vision of the suburban American dream of the moment.

[JTW2013]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Give it 10 years. I bet you if somebody proposes borderless integrated schools at that point, many voters will be pretty receptive to the idea. That's because the demographics in this country are shifting rapidly towards low income. The numbers will be there to get something like this actually set up. Hopefully by then it's not too late.

Not taking that chance with my kids. Definitely never bet on the good sense of America's voters to save your kids.

Besides, while the demographics are shifting, there probably won't be much of a shift in who actually votes.

[ToriaT]

How do borderless integrated schools differ from charter schools. Most people prefer neighborhood schools which is what you get in most of the burbs. Of course if the schools go south in a place people will put up with the lottery and busing schemes of Chicago.