Chicago shrinks by over 200,000 in the 2000's Part 1 (Lakewood, Kingston: costs, stores)

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Have you actually spent any time in Cleveland? Perhaps you didn't know what the city has to offer, or where to go and how to get there.

Not your fault. Cleveland's not the sort of city that wows you at first glance -- it's not like Chicago or NYC in that regard -- but everything one would want of a big city can be found there, somewhere or other. Its gems are hidden and waiting to be discovered.

It would be very difficult for me to list all Cleveland's attractions in one post, but here's a link that attempts to do just that (just ignore the rather annoying writing style; this website offers plenty of good facts):

Welcome To CLEVELAND!

Cleveland's main disadvantage over Chicago (and it is a huge one) is the relative difficulty of living without a car. Truly walkable areas tend to be small, and are few and far between, and instead of blending into one another seamlessly, are often separated by miles of desolation, sadly. Plus public transit is not as frequent or efficient, likely due to the city's lower density. In addition, lots of what Cleveland has to offer is spread out all over the metro area -- much of it is in the suburbs -- often requiring traveling great distances. But it's all there.

I also wish Cleveland would do more with its lakefront to make it more attractive and accessible to the people. Chicago is the clear winner in this category, by far.

But hey, those disadvantages are offset by a much lower cost of living (particularly housing).

I'm sure that Cleveland has plenty of things to offer that I have not experienced. That being said, are you really comparing a metropolitan area of 2.2 million to one of over 9 million? It's interesting that many people view Midwestern cities as basically all the same.

[James_Carmona]

Whats wrong with people? Chicago is a great place to live...

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by James_Carmona

Whats wrong with people? Chicago is a great place to live...

The Chicago haters/diminishers have been out in full force the last few days.

[QOESTE]

Well, Isn't 90% the reason Chicago lost 200,000 population is because
of the demolition of several housing projects?
Cabrini Green, Stateway Gardens, Robert Taylor Homes, Henry Horner Homes etc!!!
What doe's everybody think of that?
Doe's Houston Texas have any housing projects?

My opinion is that this is a good thing for OUR great city of Chicago

[Savoir Faire]

Originally Posted by QOESTE

Well, Isn't 90% the reason Chicago lost 200,000 population is because
of the demolition of several housing projects?
Cabrini Green, Stateway Gardens, Robert Taylor Homes, Henry Horner Homes etc!!!
What doe's everybody think of that?
Doe's Houston Texas have any housing projects?

My opinion is that this is a good thing for OUR great city of Chicago

Englewood, including West Englewood, and Austin alone lost over 55,000 residents. If you were to have asked people a month ago what they though about the residents of these communities, many would be ready to trash them, yet they claim that losing them to the suburbs is catastrophic for Chicago???

[grapico]

Originally Posted by MannheimMadman

Can you link to this? I've been trying to scout the ArcGIS forum without any luck.

If you have ArcGIS explorer, open it, then go to Add Content, ArcGIS online, make sure you are on features, then it is one of the new ones. "Recent population change" by user_community.

[5Lakes]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Cleveland's main disadvantage over Chicago (and it is a huge one) is the relative difficulty of living without a car. Truly walkable areas tend to be small, and are few and far between, and instead of blending into one another seamlessly, are often separated by miles of desolation, sadly. Plus public transit is not as frequent or efficient, likely due to the city's lower density. In addition, lots of what Cleveland has to offer is spread out all over the metro area -- much of it is in the suburbs -- often requiring traveling great distances. But it's all there.

Yup, this is Chicago's advantage over other cities in the Midwest, or otherwise. It's the only reason I moved here really. Yeah, back in Cleveland I could go to a major concert, sporting event, top notch museum, cool neighborhood tavern, micro brewery, ethnic food joint, or whatever. Hell, there are some things Cleveland does better than Chicago. However, I would definitely not be hailing cabs, relying on transit, avoiding suburban shopping malls, or doing as much as a pedestrian. If Cleveland ever got it's urban fabric in order it would be a better city to live in than Chicago, but that is not going to happen for a very long time.

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

I'm sure that Cleveland has plenty of things to offer that I have not experienced. That being said, are you really comparing a metropolitan area of 2.2 million to one of over 9 million? It's interesting that many people view Midwestern cities as basically all the same.

I think his point was that other cities could offer good enough amenities but not in a vibrant urban package like Chicago.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by 5Lakes

Hell, there are some things Cleveland does better than Chicago.

I am sure that is true. I am curious what you think they are though so I can check them out when I am in Cleveland.

[grapico]

Originally Posted by 5Lakes

Yup, this is Chicago's advantage over other cities in the Midwest, or otherwise. It's the only reason I moved here really. Yeah, back in Cleveland I could go to a major concert, sporting event, top notch museum, cool neighborhood tavern, micro brewery, ethnic food joint, or whatever. Hell, there are some things Cleveland does better than Chicago. However, I would definitely not be hailing cabs, relying on transit, avoiding suburban shopping malls, or doing as much as a pedestrian. If Cleveland ever got it's urban fabric in order it would be a better city to live in than Chicago, but that is not going to happen for a very long time.



I think his point was that other cities could offer good enough amenities but not in a vibrant urban package like Chicago.

Yeah and? LA has a lot of amenities too, but life there is much different. Same with the other midwest cities. Day to day life is just a different animal in Chicago. BTW not posting towards you, I'm in agreement. Somewhere like Cleveland or Milwaukee just doesn't have the appeal. I mean if you have family in Cleveland or Milwaukee, that could change things but...otherwise Cleveland just doesn't attract the same people.

[edsg25]

I've been accused of interjecting national issues into a local discussion. guilty as charged. but not because what i have to say isn't relevant. it is.

we keep on looking at the comparison of cities in a very parochial pond: the United States. But today's Chicago doesn't swim with just New York or LA; it swims with Tokyo and London and Mubai. That reality needs to hit home.

America is in trouble. And if Chicago is in trouble, by extension so are New York, LA, and the rest. The whole of the nation cannot be healthy if the parts suffer. And the parts are suffering.

If they are suffering a little less in the Sun Belt than the Rust Belt, it's because the dismantling took place sooner here and went down further. Don't forget jobs spread from the Rust Belt to the Sun Belt and then across our borders. SO it is a progression. The Sun Belt isn't immune. From Atlanta to Houston to LA. Indeed the cost of air conditioning that region over the coming years should give all pause.

If New York is The Greatest City In The World (or so it claims), it was a greater city when Detroit was a great city. Detroit blue collar helped build white collar New York.

Our nation spreads 3000 miles from Atlantic to Pacific. Lope off the coastal areas, inland, say, about 500 miles on the Atlantic, Gulf, and Pacific and you've eleminated virtually all the great cities of the nation...from the northeast meaglogpolis and Atlanta and Miami close to the Atlantic, the gulf from New Orleans to Dallas to Houston and out on the west coast: SD, LA, SF, Seattle.

Over the rest of the nation, there is truly only one great city, one global city, indeed only one city that exceeds most of those along the coast:

Chicago.

A global player. Am I to believe that America is to be a heathy place if cannot support one major city between its coasts? If Chicago is to suffer, what are the implications for all the St. Louises and Detroits and Baltimores and Pittsburghs out there? Indeed, what is to come of America? Chicago's problems are America's problems. Let's stop the internal comparison of cities and see what we can do to create a rising tide to raise all their ships.

Chicago has been down for the count by so many so often, it is almost laughable. Even today on this thread, we don't look at Chicago's ills as being the national ills they truly are. Instead we compare in this narrow American pond, taking part in the insanity of pecking order that we Americans seem to apply to our cities like we do to everything else. Much of the world (happily) thinks differently.

It isn't up to Chicago to be the main engine in how to get our civic or even metropolitan economy rolling. That takes place on a national level. And it does so, by necessity, because in a global world, every nation has to look out for its own best interests. Ours doesn't. Look no further than outsourcing of jobs and the importation of cheap Asian goods.

As for the things a city can do and will do when circumstances are favorable, I wouldn't bet against Chicago in the future. And those who did in the past didn't fair well because of it.

For better or worse, I would bank more on Chicago's success this century than on the United States's. Hopefully we can do more to circumvent the problems that our country imposes on us rather than the problems it should be seeking to solve.