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Old 06-30-2010, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,289,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
He declared to some of them that they will not be saved in this world, or the next world. And he called them "sons of the devil".

BTW Are you going explain what you meant that you hated your neighbors when you were a born again Christian? I can't get my head around that statement.
Hi Finn,
I can answer you with BHFT's post earlier, she hit it on the head:
"the only way someone can believe in eternal torment and also believe God is fair and just, is to believe they deserve it."
Or, since I was surrounding myself with people who were telling me that it was just and holy and right to send "others" to hell, or annihilate them, I began to feel hate towards those people. "Since they do such-and-such, they deserve hell." This was my line of thinking, and there is hate in that. I could feel it.
And yet, I knew that it was wrong, and I felt bad inside for thinking things that I knew were not pleasing to the Lord. My own experiences in the Spirit were ones of joy, love and goodness. Just the opposite!
And I suppose I also began to hate myself, in a way, since I was hating others and knowing that it was wrong.

Does that help any?

Blessings to you,
brian

 
Old 06-30-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,243 posts, read 655,594 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
He declared to some of them that they will not be saved in this world, or the next world. And he called them "sons of the devil".
I believe that was because their deeds were evil.....

I believe what Jesus said to them was that they were not going to be saved from the vengeance that was coming in 70AD the end of THEIR age - their house was left desolate and the kingdom was given to another.

They crucified Jesus, they had hate in their heart, and did not have love for their neighbours or even God, they were using their position for their own benefit.

Where does it say that they would not be saved in this world or the world to come? and by the world to come do you mean heaven? -- I thought it was blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which was not forgiven in that age, prior to 70AD, and is not forgiven in this age, post 70AD.......

We are now in another age and in this age blasphemy of the Spirit of God is not forgiven either....
 
Old 06-30-2010, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,077 posts, read 34,350,819 times
Reputation: 10474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi Finn,
I can answer you with BHFT's post earlier, she hit it on the head:
"the only way someone can believe in eternal torment and also believe God is fair and just, is to believe they deserve it."
Or, since I was surrounding myself with people who were telling me that it was just and holy and right to send "others" to hell, or annihilate them, I began to feel hate towards those people. "Since they do such-and-such, they deserve hell." This was my line of thinking, and there is hate in that. I could feel it.
And yet, I knew that it was wrong, and I felt bad inside for thinking things that I knew were not pleasing to the Lord. My own experiences in the Spirit were ones of joy, love and goodness. Just the opposite!
And I suppose I also began to hate myself, in a way, since I was hating others and knowing that it was wrong.

Does that help any?
Not really. If you say you felt like that, I believe it, but I just don't see a born again Christian feel that way. I just can't picture it. Were you a born again Christian before you believed in UR? There is something that doesn't add up.
 
Old 06-30-2010, 05:27 PM
 
159 posts, read 150,121 times
Reputation: 46
Good example of no true Scotsman fallacy in action.
 
Old 06-30-2010, 05:53 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,575,023 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi Finn,
I can answer you with BHFT's post earlier, she hit it on the head:
"the only way someone can believe in eternal torment and also believe God is fair and just, is to believe they deserve it."
Or, since I was surrounding myself with people who were telling me that it was just and holy and right to send "others" to hell, or annihilate them, I began to feel hate towards those people. "Since they do such-and-such, they deserve hell." This was my line of thinking, and there is hate in that. I could feel it.
And yet, I knew that it was wrong, and I felt bad inside for thinking things that I knew were not pleasing to the Lord. My own experiences in the Spirit were ones of joy, love and goodness. Just the opposite!
And I suppose I also began to hate myself, in a way, since I was hating others and knowing that it was wrong.

Does that help any?

Blessings to you,
brian
John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That you LOVE one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35 BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW THAT YE ARE MY DISCIPLES, if you have love one to another.

Humility coupled with perseverance is a GODLY thing...not an evil thing...this is how The Saviour lived...to be emulated by his disciples!

Blessings...
 
Old 06-30-2010, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,077 posts, read 34,350,819 times
Reputation: 10474
Quote:
Originally Posted by python87 View Post
Good example of no true Scotsman fallacy in action.
There are two kinds of Christians: "born again" Christians, and "Christians in name only". I was a 'Christian in name only' for a long time before I was born again and surrendered my life to Christ. It was a life changing experience. My question to poster 'ahigerway' is sincere, and I am not assuming one way or the other. I don't know if he/she was a born again Christian or not because he/she never mentioned it.
 
Old 06-30-2010, 07:13 PM
 
40,086 posts, read 26,750,404 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
There are two kinds of Christians: "born again" Christians, and "Christians in name only". I was a 'Christian in name only' for a long time before I was born again and surrendered my life to Christ. It was a life changing experience. My question to poster 'ahigerway' is sincere, and I am not assuming one way or the other. I don't know if he/she was a born again Christian or not because he/she never mentioned it.
There is a simple test of your rebirth, Finn . . .

John 3:6-8 (King James Version)

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


How good are you at ""blowing where you listeth" like the wind (heard but unseen)? Are you really like the wind, Finn?
 
Old 06-30-2010, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,077 posts, read 34,350,819 times
Reputation: 10474
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is a simple test of your rebirth, Finn . . .
Thanks, but I was not asking him if I was born again (I already confessed that I was), I was asking if he was born again back in the day when he had the problem he wrote about.
 
Old 06-30-2010, 07:26 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,771,625 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
UR = Unorthodox Christianity.

I can agree with that.
Is it just me, or wouldn't that be UC?
 
Old 06-30-2010, 07:31 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,243 posts, read 655,594 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Is it just me, or wouldn't that be UC?
HUH yep
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