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I do wonder about one thing you continue to mention in your posts to me. You did it again just now. You speak of "being perfect instead of becoming perfect." Now without the subtle jab at what you suppose my beliefs are, could you please explain what you mean by "being perfect." Do you believe that you personally are perfect?
Sometimes when a scripture passage is read, it's read for what we think it means rather than what it actually says.
From this Mormon website (and no this isn't from an anti-mormon site) ....this is an article written by Marla Cilley, screen name "The Flylady", a current LDS woman and writer from the Mormon Times. The Mormon Times is produced by the Deseret News in Salt Lake City, Utah.
From the about us (Mormon Times): "The Deseret News, a daily newspaper based in Salt Lake City, does publish a weekly LDS Church News section and the associated LDSchurchNews.com. The weekly section and website are official publications of the LDS Church."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
You apparently think I'm under some kind of stress to be perfect. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that simply isn't the case. I am compelled by my love for my Savior to be the best person I can be, but I don't think that's what you're saying.
Just because you don't admit stress doesn't mean it doesn't exist for many in Mormonism, when in fact current LDS members writing \ speaking about the stress of perfectionism within the Mormon church.
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Remember your " are you personally perfect" question?
From this Mormon website (and no this isn't from an anti-mormon site) ....this is an article written by Marla Cilley, screen name "The Flylady", a current LDS woman and writer from the Mormon Times. The Mormon Times is produced by the Deseret News in Salt Lake City, Utah.
From the about us (Mormon Times): "The Deseret News, a daily newspaper based in Salt Lake City, does publish a weekly LDS Church News section and the associated LDSchurchNews.com. The weekly section and website are official publications of the LDS Church."
Just because you don't admit stress doesn't mean it doesn't exist for many in Mormonism, when in fact current LDS members writing \ speaking about the stress of perfectionism within the Mormon church.
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Remember your " are you personally perfect" question?
Yes I am
Noah was a winebibber ...
The very first thing he did when he Got of the ark was plant a vineyard for the very purpose of making alcohol, and then he got so wasted that the whole mess with Ham happened ...
The very first thing he did when he Got of the ark was plant a vineyard for the very purpose of making alcohol, and then he got so wasted that the whole mess with Ham happened ...
Genesis 6:9
Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Proverbs 3:5 .... lean not on your own understanding;
you have gone from "own understanding" to "accusatory mode"
I have deduced from your two posts above that you do not know what you actually believe. You contradict yourself, and it appears to me that you are obviously tossed to and fro by the raging seas of false religion and by the violent storms of the traditions of men.
You basically are saying out of one side of your mouth that God elects and Chooses us and that it is his work which causes us to repent and believe on Christ so that no one can boast, while out of the other side of your mouth you say it is the individual persons responsibility to make a free will choice to repent and believe, so that the blame of unbelief falls squarely on the individual person.
Sorry Twin, you cant have your cake and eat it too ...
Peace ...
Read it more carefully ..... no I don't
" while out of the other side of your mouth you say it is the individual persons responsibility to make a free will choice to repent and believe"
I don't do what you do ... that is not to conclude something that isn't taught.
My beliefs are based soley on what is written which seems to be a foreign concept to you.
So yes, those like me do have our cake and eat too.
Genesis 6:9
Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Proverbs 3:5 .... lean not on your own understanding;
you have gone from "own understanding" to "accusatory mode"
When will you stop ...........
When will i stop admitting the truth?
Don't hold your breath ...
Gen 9:20-21
Noah, a man of the soil, proceededa to plant a vineyard. When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent.
There you have it ...
The Hebrew word in that verse translated as perfect is "tamiym", and its literal definition is "complete". Noah was complete, in that he had a relationship with God, but he was by no means "perfect" in the sense that Twin.Spin would like us to believe ...
Gen 9:20-21
Noah, a man of the soil, proceededa to plant a vineyard. When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent.
There you have it ...
Peace ...
So take some time and try figure this out............
Which of those (1, 2, 3) did Jesus say in John 3:16 without it damns a person?
Answer: 2nd half of John 3:16 is the truth
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It figures you would leave out the most important thing ...
Love ...
No one is perfect, only Christ is perfect(refer to - Rom 3:10). It is the obedience of Christ that justifies us, not our obedience(refer to - Rom 5:19). It it is the faith of Christ that pleases God, the faith which is given us by the spirit of God(refer to - Gal 2:16,Gal 3:22,Phl 3:9,Rom 3:22,). And it work of Christ that saves us, not our work(Refer to - The entire new testament).
Remember your "Are you personally perfect?" question?
Yes I am
I don't believe I have ever heard anyone say this until now: "I am perfect." This is so over the top, I simply can't believe it! You, twin.spin, claim to be perfect. If this is the case, you don't even need a Savior! You could be one for the rest of us!
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. What exactly do you mean by, "I am perfect"?
I don't believe I have ever heard anyone say this until now: "I am perfect." This is so over the top, I simply can't believe it! You, twin.spin, claim to be perfect. If this is the case, you don't even need a Savior! You could be one for the rest of us!
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. What exactly do you mean by, "I am perfect"?
Maybe he means that he is perfect, in that he is perfectly imperfect?
From this Mormon website (and no this isn't from an anti-mormon site) ....this is an article written by Marla Cilley, screen name "The Flylady", a current LDS woman and writer from the Mormon Times. The Mormon Times is produced by the Deseret News in Salt Lake City, Utah.
From the about us (Mormon Times): "The Deseret News, a daily newspaper based in Salt Lake City, does publish a weekly LDS Church News section and the associated LDSchurchNews.com. The weekly section and website are official publications of the LDS Church."
Just because you don't admit stress doesn't mean it doesn't exist for many in Mormonism, when in fact current LDS members writing \ speaking about the stress of perfectionism within the Mormon church.
Twin.spin, you completely missed the point of this article! Did you notice that not once did this woman mention the Church, or even vaguely suggest that it was the Church that induces stress? She didn't even mention the kinds of stress that a person would have in trying to be perfectly moral, loving, patient, kind, charitable, long-suffering, meek, etc. Her entire article was about the kinds of stress people today (people of all religions) experience in trying to be everything to everybody. From the time we're little, we're told we have to excell in school, we have to make a lot of money so we can buy the nicest cars and wear the nicest clothes, we have to be perfect homemakers, perfect cooks and perfect parents, perfect employees, perfect spouses, etc. etc. etc. It's not the LDS Church that's causing us stress and the article was definitely not about "the stress of perfectionism within the Mormon Church"; it was about the stress of perfectionism within our lives as a whole -- regardless of which church we may attend. You not only missed the point, you made it up!!!
Last edited by Katzpur; 10-01-2010 at 07:16 PM..
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