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Before you make yourself more foolish, why not get your facts right.
Why not ask INLC or Mike or Alpha or any other decision theology person if I subscribe to "you chose to repent of your own carnal understanding"
Better yet do some research ... you may just find the cure for athlete's tongue.
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It is not surprising that even though you understand that faith isn't our doing, yet you miraculously apply it in another concept to it's incorrect understanding.
There is a market for 7\11 theology. Find other people who peddle it to
Well, none of your posts indicate that you believe it is God who makes us believe, and i have never seen you take that stance in any debate on the issue of free will here on C-D.
Please excuse me If in fact you do not believe that it is your free will choice to believe before you are quickened by the spirit of God and given repentance and faith to acknowledge the truth of the Gospel. I apologize, as i could not recognizing that fact from your arguments.
So then you admit that the only reason why anyone believes in Christ is because God elected them and quickened them spiritually and gave them repentance to acknowledge the truth of the Gospel and faith to believe on Christ?
Then you must also admit that the only reason why people do not believe in the gospel of Christ is because they cannot believe in the gospel because God has not yet given them repentance or faith.
And if you admit that to be true then you cannot say that eternal torment and or everlasting hell is in any way shape or form true justice.
I suppose then that you must be Calvinist, and that since you teach eternal torment that you must believe God specifically created most people for the very purpose of torturing them forever, and that he does not truly desire all people to be saved because if he did he would give all people repentance and faith to believe on Christ.
Please explain how I am wrong if you believe that any thing which I wrote above is wrong.
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 09-30-2010 at 03:15 PM..
Why is it when posters like you who likes to present 20 things, can only itch about the 1 thing not addressed.... is it because you have no interest in anything other than your own pulpit?
I probably presented 20 things, because I demonstrate what I believe rather than avoiding it like you have by making a post like I have quoted.
If you can't understand this simple analogy, is it no wonder that scriptural things follow
The fallacy is asserting that I do not understand it by disagreeing that it is applicable to understanding what scripture says.
I follow the analogy and I understand it just fine, I am telling you that if the analogy holds true then I am to compare the glory of a human to the Glory of God which is an unscriptural expectation of me.
I simply read scripture by the words it contains and I do listen to other peoples conclsusions, but you have avoided the issue of blasphemy and the logical theological conclusions and only keep repeating the same things without demonstrating your conclusions.
If blasphemy is an unforgivable sin and that equates to eternal damnation then anyone who rejects Christ even once, has no hope.
That is the logical conclusion based on your assertion that it disproves the idea that all are saved.
So explain, then, how blasphemy is an unforgivable sin, yet, it is indeed then forgiven if someone rejects Christ, but then accepts Christ later.
Then why not simply read Jesus words.
He didn't say blasphemy against him (Jesus) would not be forgiven
He didn't say blasphemy against the Father would not be forgiven
He said "but the blasphemy against the Spiritwill not be forgiven."
The Spirit is the third person of the trinity (deity).
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did. That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways. So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.' "
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.
But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
He didn't say blasphemy against him (Jesus) would not be forgiven
He didn't say blasphemy against the Father would not be forgiven
He said "but the blasphemy against the Spiritwill not be forgiven."
The Spirit is the third person of the trinity (deity).
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did. That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways. So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.' "
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.
But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\ never means never ///////////////
"They shall never enter my rest." Psalm 95:7-11
I understand that, my position is that all believers, or at least a good percentage of us, blaspheme at least once. So if it is the unforgivable sin and that equals eternal damnation, how then is a believer to reconcile the TRUTH and not a clever way to find a loophole?
Before you make yourself more foolish, why not get your facts right.
Why not ask INLC or Mike or Alpha or any other decision theology person if I subscribe to "you chose to repent of your own carnal understanding"
Better yet do some research ... you may just find the cure for athlete's tongue.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
It is not surprising that even though you understand that faith isn't our doing, yet you miraculously apply it in another concept to it's incorrect understanding.
There is a market for 7\11 theology. Find other people who peddle it to
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776
Well, none of your posts indicate that you believe it is God who makes us believe, and i have never seen you take that stance in any debate on the issue of free will here on C-D.
Please excuse me If in fact you do not believe that it is your free will choice to believe before you are quickened by the spirit of God and given repentance and faith to acknowledge the truth of the Gospel. I apologize, as i could not recognizing that fact from your arguments.
So then you admit that the only reason why anyone believes in Christ is because God elected them and quickened them spiritually and gave them repentance to acknowledge the truth of the Gospel and faith to believe on Christ?
Then you must also admit that the only reason why people do not believe in the gospel of Christ is because they cannot believe in the gospel because God has not yet given them repentance or faith.
And if you admit that to be true then you cannot say that eternal torment and or everlasting hell is in any way shape or form true justice.
I suppose then that you must be Calvinist, and that since you teach eternal torment that you must believe God specifically created most people for the very purpose of torturing them forever, and that he does not truly desire all people to be saved because if he did he would give all people repentance and faith to believe on Christ.
Please explain how I am wrong if you believe that any thing which I wrote above is wrong.
Peace ...
Twin.Spin ...
Will not not respond to my last post to you above?
I would like to read what you have to say about it ...
'OUK' is a Greek particle, "never" is an English adverb ... The proper translation of OUK is the English particle "not" ...
From the Vines ...
The translators know how to translate the Greek into the English. You do not. I have provided three different translations, two of which are Greek/English Interlinear Bibles, and the other being the NASB which is considered to be one of the most faithful to the Greek language.
The passage makes it clear that the sin of blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, which was attributing to Satan the Miracles that Jesus performed under the ministry of God the Holy Spirit, and which was tantamount of rejection of Christ as the Messiah - unbelief, is eternally unforgivable. As long as the ones who were doing that continued to do so, they could not be forgiven. If one dies never having received Christ as Savior, he is forever lost.
Here is where we find thew convoluted teachings that obfuscate the logical conclusions of traditional theology.
If Blasphemy is rejecting Christ, then everyone, at some point has rejected Christ. If rejecting Christ at any time is blaphemy, then turning around and then accepting Christ after you have already rejected him is irrelevant because you are already guilty of comitting it and cannot be forgiven of it. Do you now assert that there is a second chance or a 3rd 4th 5th etc as long as your alive on earth? Well, there is not one word in all the passages of Blasphemy that you can use to escape this illogic.
The conclusion one must arrive at is the harmony between why Blasphemy is unforgivable and how then ANYONE, including you. can get to heaven if they have comitted an unforgivable act.
The problem is the way people are taught to react to words, not to reason truth from them.
The fact that blaphemy is not forgivable is a gloriously wonderful thing. Why? It is because it is assurance that all will believe and that no one is left out, no one is overlooked, all are loved and Jesus sacrifice takes care of ALL sin.
This is why EVERY tongue will Confess Jesus as Lord, to the GLORY of God the Father.
To the contrary. Unbelief cannot be forgiven. Once a person has changed his mind about Christ (repentance) and goes from unbelief to belief then he has passed from spiritual death to eternal life. As long as a person remains in unbelief he cannot be forgiven. But once he believes, he is no longer in unbelief.
The sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was attributing to Satan, the miracles that Jesus was doing under the ministry of God the Holy Spirit. It was tantamount to rejecting Jesus as the Messiah. As long as the Pharisees' continued to do that and thereby reject Christ, they could not be forgiven. If at any time that they would repent (change their mind about Christ, they would be forgiven). In other words, anyone who dies having rejected Christ as Savior cannot be forgiven and is eternally lost. Since Jesus Christ is not physically on the earth and performing miracles under the power of the Holy Spirit, the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be commited today. But people can and do continue to reject Jesus as Savior. If they die in unbelief, they remain under eternal condemnation.
Absolutely. Look, I'm not saying we agree on everything. Obviously we don't, but I do agree that we as human beings have incurred a debt that we do not have the means to repay. We are all in need of a Savior, of someone who is in a position of being able to take upon himself our sins and suffer on our behalf. This is what is means by the phrase, "substitutionary atonement." No one who has ever lived (except Jesus, of course) could conceivably save himself. All of us must rely on our Savior to do for us what we can not do for ourselves. It's like the song, "Rock of Ages" says: "Not the labors of my hands can fill all thy law's demands; Could my zeal no respite know, could my tears forever flow, all for sin could not atone; Thou must save, and thou alone."
I do wonder about one thing you continue to mention in your posts to me. You did it again just now. You speak of "being perfect instead of becoming perfect." Now without the subtle jab at what you suppose my beliefs are, could you please explain what you mean by "being perfect." Do you believe that you personally are perfect?
Quote:
I do hope that .... I really don't want to see you speechless when faced before Heavenly Father counting on "doing all you can do and God does the rest", yet God rejects it because he demands 100% perfection.
Again, I'm confused. Do you believe we must be 100% perfect on our own to be saved? Do you think I believe that, because I most definitely do not.
Quote:
That is why I asked about if you read that article in the Mormon times.
I must have missed something. What article?
Quote:
Galations 3, Romans 4 and Jesus' answer to "what must I do to be save" cures the stress of perfection demands.
You apparently think I'm under some kind of stress to be perfect. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that simply isn't the case. I am compelled by my love for my Savior to be the best person I can be, but I don't think that's what you're saying.
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