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Christ did speak Koine Greek, and Aramaic, and Hebrew ... All these languages were spoken in the time of Christ in that part of the world. In order for Christ to have spoken to the Roman Soldiers, he would have had to have spoken in Koine Greek.
But that is not the point, the point is that the original language in which the New testament scriptures where written was Koine Greek.
No sir, you are on the losing side of this one. You simply refuse to accept the fact that the bible translations you refer to in order to make your argument mistranslate that verse.
And i have proven it, but you choose to ignore the facts.
So far you haven't proved anything other than it's impossible to tell you the king has no clothes
I do very much believe that when we pass into the spirit world that we find our home to be in the condition of our soul. If that soul has done some pretty nasty things here on earth it will find itself in a dark and perhaps hellish atmosphere. BUT I do believe that all souls will come to know of the Good News and can repent and their conditions can substantially improve.
Then there is, of course, the word of Matthew 5:26, "Verily, I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last farthing." Not "until you have paid the last farthing" (a quarter-penny) holds two operative words: "until", and: "paid". Both tell us, unequivocally, that there is no Eternal Damnation.
The preposition "until" ("up to a stipulated time") attests to there being the possibility of, and condition for, our redemption: when we have paid our debt to the last farthing.
To the contrary. The metaphor is intended to express the concept that one who is in a debtors prison is unable to pay off his debt. That is why Jesus had to pay the penalty for man. But anyone who rejects Christ refuses Jesus' substitutionary payment on their behalf and therefore remains under a debt that they can never pay. Man's righteousness can never pay off the debt. By refusing to receive Christ as Savior, the unbeliever stands on his relative human righteousness which is the basis for his eternal condemnation to the lake of fire. God's perfect and absolute righteousness can NEVER have anything to do with man's relative human rightousness.
Quote:
If we combine Jesus' word here with his in the former part of Matthew 12:32, "He that sinneth against the son of man, it shall be forgiven him," then there is only one inescapable conclusion: our sins can be forgiven, and will be forgiven when we have reaped what we sowed.
So dark souls will not live in dark places for all eternity!
Rejection of Christ cannot be forgiven, as receiving Christ as Savior is the condition for eternal salvation.
John 3:36 'He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
So far you haven't proved anything other than it's impossible to tell you the king has no clothes
LOL ... You have no means to deny what i have proven other than rhetorical nonsense. You're in a corner and have no other recourse than to make silly quibbles ...
Jesus did not speak English, and the new testament was not originally written in English. So you are wrong, Jesus did not say "never" in Mar 3:29 ...
Here are the actual words of the original text, in the original Koine Greek Language, translated into English word for word.
So the literal Greek scripture says ...
"os d an blasfhmhsh eis to pneuma to agion ouk ecei afesin eis ton aiwna
all enocos estin aiwniou krisews"
Translated literally into English the verse says ...
"WHO YET EVER should-be-blaspheming UNTO THE spirit THE HOLY NOT IS-HAVING pardon UNTO THE eon but liable IS OF-eonian JUDGing"
Or ...
"but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment"
The Koine Greek word which means never is "oudepote", and that word is not used in Mar 3:29.
You simply refuse to study the scriptures in the original language in order to understand what the scriptures are actually saying but you instead choose to rely on the translations of the scriptures which are influenced by the traditional teachings of the church, and so you are always learning yet are unable to come to a knowledge of the truth concerning the plan and the purpose of God in the ages as is described by the original texts of the bible.
You are willingly ignoring the original language as this has already been discussed on multiple occasions here on this very forum ... But one day God will give you repentance of your hardened heart and its way so that you will finally come to acknowledge the truth, but it might only be after you suffer loss by fire ...
Peace ...
To the contrary. Those who will, simply go to this link and see the proper translation of the verse in question. Mark 3:29 Greek Texts and Analysis
As for the use of the word 'never', the word used in Mark 3:29 is 'OUK'
According to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance 'Ouk' carries this meaning:nay, neither, never, no
Also (before a vowel) ouk (ook), and (before an aspirate) ouch (ookh) a primary word; the absolute negative (compare me) adverb; no or not -- + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, (can-)not, + nothing, + special, un(-worthy), when, + without, + yet but. See also ou me, mekos.
As far as translating aiónios as age-during, the Bible makes a clear distinction between that which is temporary and that which is eternal in 2 Corinthians 4:18. 'While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal (proskaira -temporary - of a season), but the things which are not seen are eternal (aiōnia).
Now for those of you who insist that aionia never means eternal, things which are temporary - proskaira - and an age which comes to an end, no matter how long it lasts, is temporary, is distinquished from things which are eternal - aionia.
To accuse the many different translators of the various translations of all getting the meaning wrong, is just plain stupid. You insult those translators who have a sound knowledge of the Greek. You futher insult the learned theologians who have a sound knowledge of the Greek and understand that the original languages speak of eternal torment in the lake of fire for unbelievers and fallen angels.
To the contrary. Those who will, simply go to this link and see the proper translation of the verse in question. Mark 3:29 Greek Texts and Analysis
As for the use of the word 'never', the word used in Mark 3:29 is 'OUK'
According to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance 'Ouk' carries this meaning:nay, neither, never, no
Also (before a vowel) ouk (ook), and (before an aspirate) ouch (ookh) a primary word; the absolute negative (compare me) adverb; no or not -- + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, (can-)not, + nothing, + special, un(-worthy), when, + without, + yet but. See also ou me, mekos.
As far as translating aiónios as age-during, the Bible makes a clear distinction between that which is temporary and that which is eternal in 2 Corinthians 4:18. 'While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal (proskaira -temporary - of a season), but the things which are not seen are eternal (aiōnia).
Now for those of you who insist that aionia never means eternal, things which are temporary - proskaira - and an age which comes to an end, no matter how long it lasts, is temporary, is distinquished from things which are eternal - aionia.
To accuse the many different translators of the various translations of all getting the meaning wrong, is just plain stupid. You insult those translators who have a sound knowledge of the Greek. You futher insult the learned theologians who have a sound knowledge of the Greek and understand that the original languages speak of eternal torment in the lake of fire for unbelievers and fallen angels.
'OUK' is a Greek particle, "never" is an English adverb ... The proper translation of OUK is the English particle "not" ...
As far as translating aiónios as age-during, the Bible makes a clear distinction between that which is temporary and that which is eternal in 2 Corinthians 4:18. 'While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal (proskaira -temporary - of a season), but the things which are not seen are eternal (aiōnia).
Now for those of you who insist that aionia never means eternal, things which are temporary - proskaira - and an age which comes to an end, no matter how long it lasts, is temporary, is distinquished from things which are eternal - aionia.
Counter argument for the definition of the word aionios and its variations ...
"Proskaira" in contrast with "aionios" does not prove that "aionios" necessarily means eternal, to the contrary, "aionios" means literally "pertaining to the age/ages", as it is the adjective form of "aion" just as "eonian" is the adjective form of the English term "eon" or "age". "Aionios" applies to "aion" as "yearly" applies to "year" or as "Hourly" applies to "hour".
The verse above which mike quotes can and i believe should be translated as ...
"we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen are temporary, but the things not seen are age-during". (YLT)
2 Corinthians 4:18 is not comparing visible things that are "for a season" with things that are "eternal", it is comparing those things which we see now which are "temporary" or "for a season" with the things which are not yet seen but are to come and will be seen in the kingdom age. The things to come which are not yet seen are "eonian", or apply to the age to come when Christ will subject all things to himself.
That is to say, the things which Paul refers to that are not yet seen apply to the kingdom age which is to come, they "Pertain to the age" which is to come, and will replace those things that are now seen in this age.
This is further made evident in the way in which the Septuagint translates the Hebrew term Olam, which means literally "beyond the horizon" or "unseen", with the Greek term "aionios". A time that is so far in the future or in the past that it is unknowable(without divine revelation) at present.
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 09-30-2010 at 02:05 AM..
Jesus did not speak English, and the new testament was not originally written in English. So you are wrong, Jesus did not say "never" in Mar 3:29 ...
Here are the actual words of the original text, in the original Koine Greek Language, translated into English word for word.
So the literal Greek scripture says ...
"os d an blasfhmhsh eis to pneuma to agion ouk ecei afesin eis ton aiwna
all enocos estin aiwniou krisews"
Translated literally into English the verse says ...
"WHO YET EVER should-be-blaspheming UNTO THE spirit THE HOLY NOT IS-HAVING pardon UNTO THE eon but liable IS OF-eonian JUDGing"
Or ...
"but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment"
The Koine Greek word which means never is "oudepote", and that word is not used in Mar 3:29.
You simply refuse to study the scriptures in the original language in order to understand what the scriptures are actually saying but you instead choose to rely on the translations of the scriptures which are influenced by the traditional teachings of the church, and so you are always learning yet are unable to come to a knowledge of the truth concerning the plan and the purpose of God in the ages as is described by the original texts of the bible.
You are willingly ignoring the original language as this has already been discussed on multiple occasions here on this very forum ... But one day God will give you repentance of your hardened heart and its way so that you will finally come to acknowledge the truth, but it might only be after you suffer loss by fire ...
Peace ...
Great post Ironmaw!!!! Thanks! I'd give you a rep if I could....thanks for answering TwinSpin's post to me, I didn't see it until now. You did a much better job than I could have and I really appreciate it. well TS, you have your answer and I hope you paid attention.
I came here to keep a balance between the good and the bad,and I don't think I have done anything absurd. Even the God has it's way to balance the things, then how can a human be devoid of such things? Hopefully, you will agree, that sometimes, when a tiger goes out to fill up his stomach, it's good for him and bad for his prey.........the laws of nature runs this way!!!!!
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Revelation 20; 9,-15
