Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"anyone who rejects Christ refuses Jesus' substitutionary payment on their behalf and therefore remains under a debt that they can never pay. Man's righteousness can never pay off the debt."
Here is where we find thew convoluted teachings that obfuscate the logical conclusions of traditional theology.
If Blasphemy is rejecting Christ, then everyone, at some point has rejected Christ. If rejecting Christ at any time is blaphemy, then turning around and then accepting Christ after you have already rejected him is irrelevant because you are already guilty of comitting it and cannot be forgiven of it. Do you now assert that there is a second chance or a 3rd 4th 5th etc as long as your alive on earth? Well, there is not one word in all the passages of Blasphemy that you can use to escape this illogic.
The conclusion one must arrive at is the harmony between why Blasphemy is unforgivable and how then ANYONE, including you. can get to heaven if they have comitted an unforgivable act.
The problem is the way people are taught to react to words, not to reason truth from them.
The fact that blaphemy is not forgivable is a gloriously wonderful thing. Why? It is because it is assurance that all will believe and that no one is left out, no one is overlooked, all are loved and Jesus sacrifice takes care of ALL sin.
This is why EVERY tongue will Confess Jesus as Lord, to the GLORY of God the Father.
This teaching is grasping for straws. The truth is pushed aside to conform to the feelings of men. In spite of these teachings of men, God's truth is marching on -- and it will stand until the end.
Sorry I think it is you who are grasping at straws if you think the English word "hell" is not translated from 4 different words... anyone can verify this for themselves...
Here is where we find thew convoluted teachings that obfuscate the logical conclusions of traditional theology.
If Blasphemy is rejecting Christ, then everyone, at some point has rejected Christ. If rejecting Christ at any time is blaphemy, then turning around and then accepting Christ after you have already rejected him is irrelevant because you are already guilty of comitting it and cannot be forgiven of it. Do you now assert that there is a second chance or a 3rd 4th 5th etc as long as your alive on earth? Well, there is not one word in all the passages of Blasphemy that you can use to escape this illogic.
The conclusion one must arrive at is the harmony between why Blasphemy is unforgivable and how then ANYONE, including you. can get to heaven if they have comitted an unforgivable act.
The problem is the way people are taught to react to words, not to reason truth from them.
The fact that blaphemy is not forgivable is a gloriously wonderful thing. Why? It is because it is assurance that all will believe and that no one is left out, no one is overlooked, all are loved and Jesus sacrifice takes care of ALL sin.
This is why EVERY tongue will Confess Jesus as Lord, to the GLORY of God the Father.
the only convoluted teachings that obfuscate is your logical conclusions that "all" is to mean "all inclusive" and that "every" is to mean "all inclusive spoken in belief".
Look at it from simple human aspect. It happened in human history. A conquered general and army by Roman army would be forced kneel to declare publicaly that Caesar was king to Ceaser's glory in front of Roman crowds. That necessarily didn't automatically mean that the conquered believed it.
That is your foundational error. You automatically believe that every knee that speaks it does so out of belief. The Jews as a conquered people of the Romans, had to (at some point in time) do the same thing. They had to bow the knee whether they believed it or not... to the glory of Ceaser.
That's why it was so ingenious when the Jewish leaders said "We have no king but Ceaser".... ya right
the only convoluted teachings that obfuscate is your logical conclusions that "all" is to mean "all inclusive" and that "every" is to mean "all inclusive spoken in belief".
Look at it from simple human aspect. It happened in human history. A conquered general and army by Roman army would be forced kneel to declare publicaly that Caesar was king to Ceaser's glory in front of Roman crowds. That necessarily didn't automatically mean that the conquered believed it.
That is your foundational error. You automatically believe that every knee that speaks it does so out of belief. The Jews as a conquered people of the Romans, had to (at some point in time) do the same thing. They had to bow the knee whether they believed it or not... to the glory of Ceaser.
That's why it was so ingenious when the Jewish leaders said "We have no king but Ceaser".... ya right
I simply read scripture by the words it contains and I do listen to other peoples conclsusions, but you have avoided the issue of blasphemy and the logical theological conclusions and only keep repeating the same things without demonstrating your conclusions.
If blasphemy is an unforgivable sin and that equates to eternal damnation then anyone who rejects Christ even once, has no hope.
That is the logical conclusion based on your assertion that it disproves the idea that all are saved.
So explain, then, how blasphemy is an unforgivable sin, yet, it is indeed then forgiven if someone rejects Christ, but then accepts Christ later.
Yes, I read it. But still it doesn't matter. When the foundation is flawed, it doesn't matter how well the rest of the building is. The foundational position of the usage of "all" as to imply "all inclusive" is incorrect.
Though Jesus paid for all sins doesn't negate the teaching that many will never reap the benefit of it. It's not that Jesus didn't accomplish it, it's that many don't believe that he did. That is the TOS (Terms of Salvation) that God has set.
You and like others, disagree with the TOS that God has set forth. That disagreement is not God's fault or responsibility to for him to change nor do I have to constantly prove or defend. The subject of hell isn't to scare anybody into heaven....if that's what you were doing then you wrong then. The subject of hell is to warn of the consequences of unbelief. Just like what Noah did.
What you have done is to to listen to people that under estimate the seriousness of sin and unbelief that God has. That message is not from God.
Here is your answer Ilene....return back to the truth.
Hell; it has a flame and it's everlasting
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever.There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
You are simply being stiff necked and will not accept the truth of the love of God for all people and his plan and purpose in the ages for which he sent his only begotten son, the living word of God Christ Jesus our lord, to accomplish his desire witch is the salvation of the whole world in him and the acknowledgment of the truth of Christ as lord and savior by all people in the fullness of times.
In your pride and arrogance you still believe that you are the one who chose God, and you boast of your wisdom and decision making skills in making the choice to believe in the spiritual things of God before you were quickened by the spirit and before you were even able to comprehend the gospel.
You boast that you chose to repent of your own carnal understanding and refuse to accept the teaching of the scriptures that plainly declare that it is God who is the one who gives and allows repentance by the quickening of the holy spirit so that one can comprehend and acknowledge the truth of the spiritual things of God.
You boast of your free will decision to do Gods good pleasure all the while denying him the glory for the work that he has done in you to produce the fruits of the spirit within you so that you desire and act according to his good pleasure.
If you were humbled you would recognize that the scriptures certainly and specifically teach that it is not according to our desire or work that we are elected as the members of the body of Christ but it is in fact by the mercy of God that he has chosen you and given you repentance and faith to believe and confess that Christ is lord by his holy spirit.
One day you will understand, and you will be humbled and you will give ALL the glory to God and finally admit that you had absolutely nothing to do with your own salvation, but that it was completely and absolutely 100% the work of God within you that caused you to will and do his good pleasure which is to believe on and have faith in Christ our lord.
You are simply being stiff necked and will not accept the truth of the love of God for all people and his plan and purpose in the ages for which he sent his only begotten son, the living word of God Christ Jesus our lord, to accomplish his desire witch is the salvation of the whole world in him and the acknowledgment of the truth of Christ as lord and savior by all people in the fullness of times.
In your pride and arrogance you still believe that you are the one who chose God, and you boast of your wisdom and decision making skills in making the choice to believe in the spiritual things of God before you were quickened by the spirit and before you were even able to comprehend the gospel.
You boast that you chose to repent of your own carnal understanding and refuse to accept the teaching of the scriptures that plainly declare that it is God who is the one who gives and allows repentance by the quickening of the holy spirit so that one can comprehend and acknowledge the truth of the spiritual things of God.
You boast of your free will decision to do Gods good pleasure all the while denying him the glory for the work that he has done in you to produce the fruits of the spirit within you so that you desire and act according to his good pleasure.
If you were humbled you would recognize that the scriptures certainly and specifically teach that it is not according to our desire or work that we are elected as the members of the body of Christ but it is in fact by the mercy of God that he has chosen you and given you repentance and faith to believe and confess that Christ is lord by his holy spirit.
One day you will understand, and you will be humbled and you will give ALL the glory to God and finally admit that you had absolutely nothing to do with your own salvation, but that it was completely and absolutely 100% the work of God within you that caused you to will and do his good pleasure which is to believe on and have faith in Christ our lord.
Peace ...
Before you make yourself more foolish, why not get your facts right.
Why not ask INLC or Mike or Alpha or any other decision theology person if I subscribe to "you chose to repent of your own carnal understanding"
Better yet do some research ... you may just find the cure for athlete's tongue.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
It is not surprising that even though you understand that faith isn't our doing, yet you miraculously apply it in another concept to it's incorrect understanding.
There is a market for 7\11 theology. Find other people who peddle it to
Look at it from simple human aspect. It happened in human history. A conquered general and army by Roman army would be forced kneel to declare publicaly that Caesar was king to Ceaser's glory in front of Roman crowds. That necessarily didn't automatically mean that the conquered believed it.
That is your foundational error. You automatically believe that every knee that speaks it does so out of belief. The Jews as a conquered people of the Romans, had to (at some point in time) do the same thing. They had to bow the knee whether they believed it or not... to the glory of Ceaser.
If we want to look at a foundational error, it is this mindset that I have found in far too many churches.
You want me to view the almighty God the Father, the creator whos nature is LOVE, from a human perspective when scripture tells me to not do that.
The glory of Caesar is how I should view to the "Glory of God the Father"?
Really now, if a foundational error was ever demonstrated, that is it right there.
I would say that if there is a lesson to be seen it is that the depiction of the Glory of Caesar is in direct contrast to the Glory of God and that actually reinforces that Confessing Jesus as Lord as scripture describes does not depict an event of the same nature as you have described using Caesar.
I simply read scripture by the words it contains and I do listen to other peoples conclsusions, but you have avoided the issue of blasphemy and the logical theological conclusions and only keep repeating the same things without demonstrating your conclusions.
If blasphemy is an unforgivable sin and that equates to eternal damnation then anyone who rejects Christ even once, has no hope.
That is the logical conclusion based on your assertion that it disproves the idea that all are saved.
So explain, then, how blasphemy is an unforgivable sin, yet, it is indeed then forgiven if someone rejects Christ, but then accepts Christ later.
From my understanding people who truly blasphemy the Holy Spirit never confess and ask for forgiveness and this is why it is never forgiven.
I simply read scripture by the words it contains and I do listen to other peoples conclsusions, but you have avoided the issue of blasphemy and the logical theological conclusions and only keep repeating the same things without demonstrating your conclusions.
If blasphemy is an unforgivable sin and that equates to eternal damnation then anyone who rejects Christ even once, has no hope.
That is the logical conclusion based on your assertion that it disproves the idea that all are saved.
So explain, then, how blasphemy is an unforgivable sin, yet, it is indeed then forgiven if someone rejects Christ, but then accepts Christ later.
Why is it when posters like you who likes to present 20 things, can only itch about the 1 thing not addressed.... is it because you have no interest in anything other than your own pulpit?
If we want to look at a foundational error, it is this mindset that I have found in far too many churches.
How serious did you look into it ... 30 minutes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood
You want me to view the almighty God the Father, the creator whos nature is LOVE, from a human perspective when scripture tells me to not do that.
The glory of Caesar is how I should view to the "Glory of God the Father"?
Really now, if a foundational error was ever demonstrated, that is it right there.
I would say that if there is a lesson to be seen it is that the depiction of the Glory of Caesar is in direct contrast to the Glory of God and that actually reinforces that Confessing Jesus as Lord as scripture describes does not depict an event of the same nature as you have described using Caesar.
If you can't understand this simple analogy, is it no wonder that scriptural things follow
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
