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To many, the thought of everlasting punishment for sinners, whether they profess Jesus or not, is unthinkable; they cannot imagine their loved ones being sent to this place called hell to suffer for eternity; therefore, they attempt to come up with other ways. For some, it's annihilation; for others, it's no hell at all; they claim that the Bible has been mistranslated. The truth is simply more than they can bear.
Instead of trying to conform the Word to your feelings, why not get down to business with God about your loved ones? If need be, go on a 40 day fast for God to shake them up, sending the fear of hell fire down on them. Some don't believe in fear to shake up a sinner, well God does. And, I listen to Him, not the theories of men.
1 Proverbs
[23] Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
[24] Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
[25] But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
[26] I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
[27] When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
[28] Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
[29] For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
[30] They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
[31] Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
[32] For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
[33] But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.
Those who die in their sins have trampled the precious blood of Christ underfoot, and counted it worthless. Therefore, they will be turned over to the devil where he and all his angels will be tormented forever.
If Sin were a Person:
It would desire to have absolute control over its subjects to keep them in the bondage of fear and hatred for God
It would desire to have a place to have its reign where it can keep its subjects in pain and misery for eternity.
The preaching of mainstream "Christianity" concerning a doctrine of "Hell" gives Sin EXACTLY what it desires.
I'm thankful that God's HATRED is LOVE also and even in His Love, His correction prevails.
'OUK' is a Greek particle, "never" is an English adverb ... The proper translation of OUK is the English particle "not" ...
Again...
As for the use of the word 'never', the word used in Mark 3:29 is 'OUK'
According to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance 'Ouk' carries this meaning:nay, neither, never, no
Also (before a vowel) ouk (ook), and (before an aspirate) ouch (ookh) a primary word; the absolute negative (compare me) adverb; no or not -- + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, (can-)not, + nothing, + special, un(-worthy), when, + without, + yet but. See also ou me, mekos.
The New Greek English Interlinear New Testament UBS 4th edition, Nestle-Aland 26th edition, translates Mark 3:29 in the following manner...
Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Spirit Holy does not have forgiveness into the age but is guilty of an eternal sin.
The Biblos online Greek English New Testament translates Mark 3:29 like this...
Mark 3:29 Whoever but that may blaspheme against the Spirit the Holy never has forgiveness against age but guilty is of eternal sin.
Here is the NASB's translation...
Mark 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin''
The meaning is exactly the same in all three translations.The meaning of the passage is precisely that blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, which was tantamount to not believing in Jesus Christ, is never forgiven. Why? Because the issue in salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. If a person dies without believing in Christ for salvation he has lost his opportunity to avail himself of God's grace, and is ETERNALLY LOST.
The key word is eternal.
As far as translating aiónios as age-during, the Bible makes a clear distinction between that which is temporary and that which is eternal in 2 Corinthians 4:18. 'While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal (proskaira -temporary - of a season), but the things which are not seen are eternal (aiōnia).
Now for those of you who insist that aionia never means eternal, things which are temporary - proskaira - and an age which comes to an end, no matter how long it lasts, is temporary, is distinquished from things which are eternal - aionia.
Counter argument for the definition of the word aionios and its variations ...
"Proskaira" in contrast with "aionios" does not prove that "aionios" necessarily means eternal, to the contrary, "aionios" means literally "pertaining to the age/ages", as it is the adjective form of "aion" just as "eonian" is the adjective form of the English term "eon" or "age". "Aionios" applies to "aion" as "yearly" applies to "year" or as "Hourly" applies to "hour".
The verse above which mike quotes can and i believe should be translated as ...
"we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen are temporary, but the things not seen are age-during". (YLT)
2 Corinthians 4:18 is not comparing visible things that are "for a season" with things that are "eternal", it is comparing those things which we see now which are "temporary" or "for a season" with the things which are not yet seen but are to come and will be seen in the kingdom age. The things to come which are not yet seen are "eonian", or apply to the age to come when Christ will subject all things to himself.
That is to say, the things which Paul refers to that are not yet seen apply to the kingdom age which is to come, they "Pertain to the age" which is to come, and will replace those things that are now seen in this age.
This is further made evident in the way in which the Septuagint translates the Hebrew term Olam, which means literally "beyond the horizon" or "unseen", with the Greek term "aionios". A time that is so far in the future or in the past that it is unknowable(without divine revelation) at present.
Peace ...
And again, an age which comes to an end is temporary, no matter how long it lasts. 2 Corinthians 4:18 is contrasting things which are temporary -proskaira, with things which are eternal - aionias. IT IS NOT CONTRASTING THINGS WHICH ARE TEMPORARY WITH THINGS WHICH ARE TEMPORARY. The Millennium - the Kingdom age is temporary. It lasts for 1000 years. It is the last dispensation of human history. After the Millennium ends, it gives way to eternity future.
Again...
As for the use of the word 'never', the word used in Mark 3:29 is 'OUK'
According to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance 'Ouk' carries this meaning:nay, neither, never, no
Also (before a vowel) ouk (ook), and (before an aspirate) ouch (ookh) a primary word; the absolute negative (compare me) adverb; no or not -- + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, (can-)not, + nothing, + special, un(-worthy), when, + without, + yet but. See also ou me, mekos.
The New Greek English Interlinear New Testament UBS 4th edition, Nestle-Aland 26th edition, translates Mark 3:29 in the following manner...
Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Spirit Holy does not have forgiveness into the age but is guilty of an eternal sin.
The Biblos online Greek English New Testament translates Mark 3:29 like this...
Mark 3:29 Whoever but that may blaspheme against the Spirit the Holy never has forgiveness against age but guilty is of eternal sin.
Here is the NASB's translation...
Mark 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin''
The meaning is exactly the same in all three translations.The meaning of the passage is precisely that blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, which was tantamount to not believing in Jesus Christ, is never forgiven. Why? Because the issue in salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. If a person dies without believing in Christ for salvation he has lost his opportunity to avail himself of God's grace, and is ETERNALLY LOST.
The key word is eternal.
As far as translating aiónios as age-during, the Bible makes a clear distinction between that which is temporary and that which is eternal in 2 Corinthians 4:18. 'While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal (proskaira -temporary - of a season), but the things which are not seen are eternal (aiōnia).
Now for those of you who insist that aionia never means eternal, things which are temporary - proskaira - and an age which comes to an end, no matter how long it lasts, is temporary, is distinquished from things which are eternal - aionia.
Again ...
'OUK' is a Greek particle, "never" is an English adverb ... The proper translation of OUK is the English particle "not" ...
And again, an age which comes to an end is temporary, no matter how long it lasts. 2 Corinthians 4:18 is contrasting things which are temporary -proskaira, with things which are eternal - aionias. IT IS NOT CONTRASTING THINGS WHICH ARE TEMPORARY WITH THINGS WHICH ARE TEMPORARY. The Millennium - the Kingdom age is temporary. It lasts for 1000 years. It is the last dispensation of human history. After the Millennium ends, it gives way to eternity future.
And again ...
Counter argument for the definition of the word aionios and its variations ...
"Proskaira" in contrast with "aionios" does not prove that "aionios" necessarily means eternal, to the contrary, "aionios" means literally "pertaining to the age/ages", as it is the adjective form of "aion" just as "eonian" is the adjective form of the English term "eon" or "age". "Aionios" applies to "aion" as "yearly" applies to "year" or as "Hourly" applies to "hour".
The verse above which mike quotes can and i believe should be translated as ...
"we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen are temporary, but the things not seen are age-during". (YLT)
2 Corinthians 4:18 is not comparing visible things that are "for a season" with things that are "eternal", it is comparing those things which we see now which are "temporary" or "for a season" with the things which are not yet seen but are to come and will be seen in the kingdom age. The things to come which are not yet seen are "eonian", or apply to the age to come when Christ will subject all things to himself.
That is to say, the things which Paul refers to that are not yet seen apply to the kingdom age which is to come, they "Pertain to the age" which is to come, and will replace those things that are now seen in this age.
This is further made evident in the way in which the Septuagint translates the Hebrew term Olam, which means literally "beyond the horizon" or "unseen", with the Greek term "aionios". A time that is so far in the future or in the past that it is unknowable(without divine revelation) at present.
Agreed Ironmaw, 2 Cor 4:18 is simply contrasting things we see now in the present with the unseen things coming in the future.
Here is the concordant literal, which is a much more accurate translation when it comes to aion/aionios:
2 Cor 4
17 For the momentary lightness of our affliction is producing for us a transcendently transcendent eonian burden of glory,
18 at our not noting what is being observed, but what is not being observed, for what is being observed is temporary, yet what is not being observed is eonian.
There is nothing about "eternal" as in without beginning/end in this passage. I don't know why you (Mike555) and twin.spin keep ignoring what the Greek meaning actually is here.
Likewise with Mark 3:29:
Mark 3
28 "Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming,
29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin"
The passage was meant to demonstrate that God is not just love; He will laugh and mock at people's calamity because they have rejected His truth; and when His truth is rejected, then He is rejected. When He is ultimately rejected, then there's nothing left for a sinner but the flames of hell for eternity.
Yet, they say: where does it say that? I tell them it's in the Holy Scriptures; but they say we don't interpret the Scriptures like that. And, I say: it's because the truth is not in you.
scgraham, the problem is though you are using the Old testament view of God which was at the time a very limited view of what God was.
It wasn't until the new testament came and Jesus came that we were given the express image of God: God is love. Love God. Love your neighbor. Love your enemy. That is what it is about.
So IMHO you have it backwards when you say God is not just love. No my friend, God is love. The verses in proverbs MUST be interpreted in that context. If you are trying to suggest that God is laughing at and mocking people as they go off to be tormented forever, you are missing the picture.
You should try to stop using accusations that can boomerang .... "the bias of reading" can certainly be most appropriate in most of your scripture quotes.
Well people's statements speak for themselves.
If I say God will have all men to be saved and conclude God will have all men to be saved, and you say I am biased, I will scratch my head over your conclusion.
If you say some will not enter the Kingdom of heaven, and conclude they must be burning in hell, I will say you are biased because the scripture does not say that. Again I will scratch my head.
Not entering the Kingdom does not mean you are burning in hell forever. That is your bias speaking.
Quote:
I said the subject of, not a word count.
The subjects Jesus spoke of the most often is following his commands (LOVE), and what the Kingdom of Heaven is about. Almost all of His parables are about His Kingdom. He didn't speak about people burning for eternity. Your bias assumes that is what He meant when He says some will not enter the Kingdom.
Agreed Ironmaw, 2 Cor 4:18 is simply contrasting things we see now in the present with the unseen things coming in the future.
Here is the concordant literal, which is a much more accurate translation when it comes to aion/aionios:
2 Cor 4
17 For the momentary lightness of our affliction is producing for us a transcendently transcendent eonian burden of glory,
18 at our not noting what is being observed, but what is not being observed, for what is being observed is temporary, yet what is not being observed is eonian.
There is nothing about "eternal" as in without beginning/end in this passage. I don't know why you (Mike555) and twin.spin keep ignoring what the Greek meaning actually is here.
Likewise with Mark 3:29:
Mark 3
28 "Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming,
29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin"
Indeed ...
And further proof that the word aionios does not mean eternal or everlasting are these verses ...
Rom 16:25
Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past(Chronos aionios)
2Ti 1:9
who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began(pro chronos aionios)
Tts 1:2
in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began(pro chronos aionios)
Try translating the word aionios as eternal or everlasting in the phrase "pro chronos aionios".
Before time everlasting/eternal?
And to compound the error of the translation of aionios as eternal and everlasting, the variations of the words "Aionios" and "Chronos" in the above verses are the plural variations of those words as well. If aionios means eternal or everlasting, then how can it have a plural variation?
"Before times everlastings" or "before times eternals?"
It simply does not make sense ...
Peace ...
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