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Well, you can have your truth and I'll have mine. If you are right - yay for you! I'll be totured forever simply because of one belief. I'll be damned forever regardless of if I was a good, loving, kind, wonderful person that made the wolrd a better place. In return for my kindness - I'll be rotting in hell.
If I am right - yay for everybody!
That's sad Dewdrop93. Your mixing up the difference between what gets a person damned vs. what happens to the damned. You're still seeing it from a "do" perspective than a "done" perspective...case in point "regardless of if I was a good, loving, kind, wonderful person that made the wolrd a better place"
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Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
If I told you that I was sure that I was right, and I had a book that "proved" it - and that if you didn't believe exactly the same thing that I did that you would be tortured forever and ever - would you abandon all of your beliefs? I could say that I am now a Christian - but I simply don't believe it in my heart. Would it be better for me to be a hypocrite?
The Bible doesn't need independent corroboration, because it is self-authenticating. The purpose of the Bible isn't to silence skeptics. The purpose of the Bible is to free people from the burden of not being able to meet God's demand for perfection. All other books\faiths teach salvation by some form of self worthiness.
Just when is good.. good enough, loving ... loving enough, kind... kind enough, wonderful ... wonderful enough?
Are you really expecting God to let anyone enter heaven under their terms?
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Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
Geez, I just don't understand why you guys get so much pleasure from telling everyone they are going to hell!
The problem is that you don't see sin as terminal condition but more of an inconvenience. It is no surprise that churches that preach that message are becoming very popular. The idea that we can satisfy God by cooperating with God in our saving process --- showing\proving our merits --- is gaining a bigfoot hold in our mordern era. There is no pleasure in telling people that they are going to hell. Who needs the "Life Preserver" (Jesus) if they don't reconize their need for a "life preserver"..? Therefore the need to speak the law.
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This is truly the idol of our time....
"satisfy God by cooperating with God in our saving process ---showing\proving our merits "
Just when is good.. good enough, loving ... loving enough, kind... kind enough, wonderful ... wonderful enough?
It's good, loving, kind and wonderful enough when the good, loving, kind and wonderful person has entered into a covenant relationship with the Lord and in doing so has become perfect in Christ.
If people won't accept God's bundle of love called Jesus who was horribly crucified on Mt Calvary to wash their sins away, then God has no more love to offer them. What are people going to do with His love for them? Will they continue to trample upon it? Mercy is quickly coming to a close; and once the door is closed, there's nothing but the flames of hell awaiting them, forever.
Noah's ark comes to mind.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the worldand became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
It's good, loving, kind and wonderful enough when the good, loving, kind and wonderful person has entered into a covenant relationship with the Lord and in doing so has become perfect in Christ.[/color]
This is truly the idol of our time.... to believe that we can "satisfy God by cooperating with God in our saving process ---showing\proving our merits "
Read Romans 4, Galations 3, Hebrews 11:7
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the worldand became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
I guess I just don't see how believing in Jesus - but being a mean, intolerant, unkind person is better than being a loving, tolerant, kind person who has no religious beliefs. If there is a God - and if he created us - I would think that it would make him happier to see people that make the world a better, happier place than people who are mean and unkind and deliberately try to make people feel bad about themselves. But that's just me.
This is truly the idol of our time.... to believe that we can "satisfy God by cooperating with God in our saving process ---showing\proving our merits "
Did I say something about satisfying God or proving our merits? Or is it just that you don't think God wants us to be good, loving and kind? It kind of makes you wonder why Jesus kept telling us to be all of these things if by doing them, we would be guilty of idol worship.
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It's the difference between seeing it as "do" vs. "done"
So, you had to believe in Jesus Christ, didn't you? If it was "done," why did you have to "do" anything? Why isn't someone who doesn't believe saved? They've done even less than you to "satisfy God." You believed; they didn't. Maybe you did too much and are the "unsaved" one.
I guess I just don't see how believing in Jesus - but being a mean, intolerant, unkind person is better than being a loving, tolerant, kind person who has no religious beliefs. If there is a God - and if he created us - I would think that it would make him happier to see people that make the world a better, happier place than people who are mean and unkind and deliberately try to make people feel bad about themselves. But that's just me.
You don't understand, Dewdrop. You're supposed to believe in Christ, but Heaven help you if you think you're also supposed to be kind.
I guess I just don't see how believing in Jesus - but being a mean, intolerant, unkind person is better than being a loving, tolerant, kind person who has no religious beliefs. If there is a God - and if he created us - I would think that it would make him happier to see people that make the world a better, happier place than people who are mean and unkind and deliberately try to make people feel bad about themselves. But that's just me.
Ironic()...isn't it Dewdrop...??? "Love" conquers all, as the old adage goes...
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)...isn't it Dewdrop...??? "Love" conquers all, as the old adage goes...
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