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I'm sorry, but that is a gross misconception about ETers. Just because we believe in hell and an eternal punishment doesn't mean that hell is the foundation of our faith or our desire to preach the Gospel to others. Like you, ETers acknowledge the love of Christ who died for us so that we could be with Him. His love is the foundation of our faith and it is the pinnacle of our teachings. Is hell taught? Yes, but it is nowhere near as important as loving Christ, letting Him do with us as He wills because He wants what's best for us, and helping our fellow men. I believe in hell, but it wasn't hell that led me to God. It was His Son on the Cross that led me to Him. Again, i'm sorry if I'm coming off too forward, but I'm starting to get the feeling that universalists rely too extensively on these ill conceived generalizations and misconceptions to show us off as being misinformed and/or corrupt in our ways. You are entitled to your view, but the point needs to be made that for ETers hell is real, but it is not how we lead others to Christ.
Have you seriouisly studied hell? If you did then you would not walk but run from it as fast as you can knowing that its teaching is contrary to God's nature. I hope that is the case that you were persuaded by other things then the fear of hell. However, I hope once you were persuaded that it isn't the fear of hell that keeps you overcoming.
Have you seriouisly studied hell? If you did then you would not walk but run from it as fast as you can knowing that its teaching is contrary to God's nature. I hope that is the case that you were persuaded by other things then the fear of hell. However, I hope once you were persuaded that it isn't the fear of hell that keeps you overcoming.
May I ask then what source material you have ascertained that I may gain understanding from?
Do I fear hell? No. It has no impact on me or my relationship to God. My only concern with hell is that loved ones may or may not go there one day. That is about the extent of my fear in regards to hell.
May I ask then what source material you have ascertained that I may gain understanding from?
Do I fear hell? No. It has no impact on me or my relationship to God. My only concern with hell is that loved ones may or may not go there one day. That is about the extent of my fear in regards to hell.
The source texts that we have by which our current Bibles are derived.
Don't you believe that Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil which is sin?
If so, how can you explain the failure to eradicate sin from those sinners that will be eternally tormented?
The source texts that we have by which our current Bibles are derived.
Don't you believe that Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil which is sin?
If so, how can you explain the failure to eradicate sin from those sinners that will be eternally tormented?
I believe that Jesus came to destroy sin's hold over our lives. We couldn't save ourselves from sin, so God decided that He would do it for us. He would take away our sin. He did. Sin no longer has its hold on us. Through Christ, we are free from sin's power. However, as I have looked into the Scripture, it states that only those who acknowledge and embrace Christ have been freed from sin. Those who choose otherwise remain in the sin they commit. Jesus accomplished His work. He set us free. Now man must take hold of the sacrifice that was made. But I guess I don't need to state what you already know was going to be my remark.
In regards to sources, can you give me some specific names of books and/or articles?
May I ask then what source material you have ascertained that I may gain understanding from?
Do I fear hell? No. It has no impact on me or my relationship to God. My only concern with hell is that loved ones may or may not go there one day. That is about the extent of my fear in regards to hell.
Hi there... I am rather confused at your response. You believe in hell, you say it has NO impact on you. But you only have a "concern" that loved ones may go there one day.
A "concern"??
Further... what about other people? Are you only worried for your loved ones?
What do you believe hell is? Maybe this will help me understand where you are coming from a little better.
I believe that Jesus came to destroy sin's hold over our lives. We couldn't save ourselves from sin, so God decided that He would do it for us. He would take away our sin. He did. Sin no longer has its hold on us. Through Christ, we are free from sin's power. However, as I have looked into the Scripture, it states that only those who acknowledge and embrace Christ have been freed from sin. Those who choose otherwise remain in the sin they commit. Jesus accomplished His work. He set us free. Now man must take hold of the sacrifice that was made. But I guess I don't need to state what you already know was going to be my remark.
In regards to sources, can you give me some specific names of books and/or articles?
But in your theology you would still have Hell holding sinners who would be continuing to sin (since they will be cursing God). So Sin is getting a good deal there. It gets to have an exclusive license to keep man in his misery. Thus there would be no ERADICATION of sin.
No you say that only those who believe in Christ will be saved. That is True. But you of the belief here that Christ won't have all to believe. Universalists believe He will.
As for sources, go to e-Sword - the Sword of the LORD with an electronic edge and download their free software. Then download the Bibles they have for free and install those. Including the Greek ones such as Textus Receptus with Strong's numbering and the Westcott Hort with Strong's. Also, get the King James version with Strong's. That will give you a lot to get started with.
For as quick as ET'er are to point out how universalism is a heresy of satan, the one thing they have never owned up to is the fact that according to their dogma 90% of mankind is headed for eternal torment. They never want to take possession of this monstrosity because to do so would be to actually shine the light of truth on the horrific belief they've been chained to by fundamentalism. If you think back on every post the ET'ers have made here not one has ever said, "Yes, I acknowledge that 90% of mankind is going to hell for eternity and this is a colossal failure on the part of God to redeem man as He promised to." The truth is they cannot speak the words because the thought is too repugnant even for them, despite how deeply they have saturated themselves with the kool-aid. What an absolute tragedy: for them to know deep in their hearts that only 10% of mankind will inherit eternal life while the rest are buried in eternal fires, screaming and writhing in unimaginable pain for all eternity. The sheer illogic of this screams out at them but they refuse to hear. What an unspeakable tragedy that they cannot comprehend this.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 12-27-2010 at 09:49 PM..
Think about this Thrillobyte. Who teaches the MOST Powerful God? - Universalists do. They preach a God that can and will accomplish everything He sets His desire to do. Also, which one preaches a Gospel that brings joy to ones ears? - Universalists do. We preach a Gospel of Peace and Love by God's Almighty Power. Those ETers preach a gospel of fear and death. They want us to be so scared of hell that we will change. Whereas the Uniiversalist is preaching a gospel where Love is what changes others. So while they persuade with fear, we will continue to preach Love.
Exactly!
Love conquers ALL.
Love only conquers ALL if it conquers ALL!
How can Love conquer ALL if Love does not CONQUER ALL??????
How does LOVE never end... yet some of your loved ones will be tortured forever? I guess you will be stuck loving people that are going to be tortured, good luck enjoying your little paradise while STILL LOVING someone and knowing they are at the same moment being tortured.
If God lobotomizes you as far as your loved ones are concerned, your love for them ends.
No man's evil is more powerful than God's love.
LOVE CONQUERS ALL.
That is the glorious gospel.
That is what the bible teaches and that is what the Spirit teaches.
ENDLESS MINDLESS TORTURE... and they call UR'ers "tools of satan".
What is the WORST possible horribleness one could possibly think of?
Torture.
What is even WORSE than that?
ENDLESS TORTURE.
And they say those who believe that "God's love will CONQUER ALL" and who bring the GOOD NEWS of HOW POWERFUL GOD IS, and bring the JOY that their loved ones are INDEED SAFE with God, their CREATOR, are aligned with some "evil being".
It is not difficult to see what is "evil" and what is "good".
Universal reconciliation PERFECTLY unravels so many mysteries about God and about this life we are in. ET adds KNOTS and more KNOTS and more KNOTS.
ET is the MOST BLASPHEMOUS thing mankind could POSSIBLY attribute to it's CREATOR. While the idea that LOVE CONQUERS ALL, that God's LOVE is the SUPREME POWER of the universe and will CONQUER ALL of mankind's darkness is the MOST BEAUTIFUL thing mankind could attribute it's creator. UR is saying that WE TRUST GOD.
Adam and Eve HID from God.
They were AFRAID of God...
GOD does not want our FEAR. (reverence YES, NOT FEAR. There is NO love in fear.)
God wants our LOVE.
We LOVED Him because HE FIRST LOVED US.
The most powerful thing in the world is LOVE.
God is CONQUERING ALL of our fear, all of our darkness.
If He was not doing this... then that would mean there is something MORE POWERFUL in the universe than LOVE.
AND THAT, my friends is IMPOSSIBLE.
For as quick as ET'er are to point out how universalism is a heresy of satan, the one thing they have never owned up to is the fact that according to their dogma 90% of mankind is headed for eternal torment. They never want to take possession of this monstrosity because to do so would be to actually shine the light of truth on the horrific belief they've been chained to by fundamentalism. If you think back on every post the ET'ers have made here not one has ever said, "Yes, I acknowledge that 90% of mankind is going to hell for eternity and this is a colossal failure on the part of God to redeem man as He promised to." The truth is they cannot speak the words because the thought is too repugnant, even for them, despite how deeply they have saturated themselves with the kool-aid. What an absolute tragedy: for them to know deep in their hearts that only 10% of mankind will inherit eternal life while the rest are buried in eternal fires, screaming and writhing in unimaginable pain for all eternity. The sheer illogic of this screams out at them but they refuse to hear. What an unspeakable tragedy that they cannot see this.
This is my opinion:
Intellectualized... rationalized?
That is what is going on.
The idea is so horrendous that it cannot be dealt with.
It has no response in the spirit where it should be felt.
Instead it is stuck back in the back of the brain and has nothing attached to it. It is as bland as saying "the sky is blue". It is nonchalantly mentioned. They can SAY "yes it's horrible" all they want, but if they don't look at their belief through the spirit, they will never get to the point where they actually LOOK at it and REALIZE what it is they believe.
And their heart, meantime, has developed HUGE walls built around it where the idea of Hell is BLOCKED. Huge walls where ET is concerned because they are human beings who cannot ACTUALLY fathom this idea of "ENDLESS TORTURE"!!
The Holy Spirit works in the HEART of man. If ET is sitting OUTSIDE of the walls of the heart, there is no way this blasphemous belief can be erradicated from a man's heart. It must be DEALT with.
But it is in GOD's timing. God knows what He is doing, and He SEES THE HEART. He knows when a heart is ready to be worked on and ready to deal with the issue of "ET erradication".
Hi there... I am rather confused at your response. You believe in hell, you say it has NO impact on you. But you only have a "concern" that loved ones may go there one day.
A "concern"??
Further... what about other people? Are you only worried for your loved ones?
What do you believe hell is? Maybe this will help me understand where you are coming from a little better.
Thanks,
sparrow
Hi Sparrow. When I say it has no impact on me, I mean that it has no impact on my views of God as all loving and kind. I take hold of what Christ has so graciously offered me and I am thankful to Him from the bottom of my heart. Because of His grace, hell has no hold over me. I'm free and allowed to come to His throne where I can finally take hold of real truth in Him. The chains of sin and the consequences that result from it are no longer tied to my existence as I am a new creation in Him. In regards to the other part, I'm sorry if I come off detached. I don't mean to; it's just part of my nature. But to answer your question...the answer is that I do have profound fears about members of my family, as well as the people of this world, going to a place of eternal seperation from God. I want all people to know just how wonderful and loving Christ really is and that He offers freedom for us. To see anyone suffer causes me heartache cause I simply can't stand to see people hurt. I want to help all people, though my flesh fails me at times. For me, I want all people to be with God in eternal paradise.
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