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It wasn't really a question, it simply pointed out that the Bible teaches that some people will be inside, and some will be outside.
It is not just portrayed by Bible believers, the Bible spells it out:
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast
I guess we will just a agree to disagree. I know your views are sincere I just do not agree with that logic. It is very difficult for me to accept a God that would not make a distinction between Mother Theresa and Hitler if both do not follow that principle, take care.
I guess we will just a agree to disagree. I know your views are sincere I just do not agree with that logic. It is very difficult for me to accept a God that would not make a distinction between Mother Theresa and Hitler if both do not follow that principle, take care.
It is not logic, it is God's rules. He says you will be judged according to your works, ad this means two things:
1. If you are a believer, your works will be judged and you will be rewarded accordingly
2. If you are a person who rejected God, your sins will be judged accordingly. I do not beleive that Gandhi and Hitler will share a room.
What do we know about mother Theresa? Why do you say she was not saved? She may have had hew crises of faith, but that does not mean she was not saved
That's absolutely terrible. Tell that to a child: you are an error!
That's about the worst thing that you can do to a child, is to tell them that they are an error. Many children believe that very thing because they don't have a mother and father around who care for them. And as a result, they often end up down a very rough road.
So just what do you think God was thinking when He put all mankind into sin and condemnation? Does that sound Loving??
OF course not!
Not unless there is a PURPOSE in doing so.
So before talking about Christ, maybe we need to start from Adam...
Blessings,
brian
Brian, Finn_Jarber is right when he says that everyone is born with sin. Ask yourself this, how can a baby die if it doesnt' have sin? Then support from the scriptures how one can die at all without sin.
But anyone can see that if the wicked were to be eternally separated from God they can care less.
What would the wicked care if God torments them forever? They could care less. After all where else are they going to desire to go at that point in time?
This whole idea of the wicked being eternally tormented means nothing to the wicked. There is no vengence there at all. I hear the ET crowd say that the wicked will be in fear but the opposite is what is preached. They preached that the wicked will be in rebellion against God. So what changes? - nothing. They already are in rebellion against God. What does God have to offer the wicked anyway when it comes to ET? After all if the wicked person is already happy being wicked then why would they want to be changed when they can just continue to be wicked the rest of eternity?
There is no logic and rationality with the whole ET doctrine. The wicked person gets told they didn't go through the narrow gate and the wicked responds "and?".
So Finn_Jarber, I ask you if I'm wicked, what do I care about what your preaching? Why should I be concerned?
But anyone can see that if the wicked were to be eternally separated from God they can care less.
What would the wicked care if God torments them forever? They could care less. After all where else are they going to desire to go at that point in time?
This whole idea of the wicked being eternally tormented means nothing to the wicked.
Then it sure seems strange they pound on the door begging Christ to open the door.
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I hear the ET crowd say that the wicked will be in fear but the opposite is what is preached
I never heard such preaching. Oh, you mean after death? Yes, that will be very difficult for them. All the weeping and gnashing of teeth are not exactly expressions of happines.
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They preached that the wicked will be in rebellion against God. So what changes? - nothing. They already are in rebellion against God. What does God have to offer the wicked anyway when it comes to ET?
What can God offer? Eternal life, love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control just to name a few.
Then it sure seems strange they pound on the door begging Christ to open the door.
Then they get to go right back on to doing what they were doing all along, correct?
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I never heard such preaching. Oh, you mean after death? Yes, that will be very difficult for them. All the weeping and gnashing of teeth are not exactly expressions of happines.
But at least they get to continue to be wicked, right? After all, that is what they want above all right?
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What can God offer? Eternal life, love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control just to name a few.
But they will already be living for eternity. They don't need love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. IF they didn't want them now then what makes you think they will want them later? Remember, you don't believe they can't repent after death, so they will be indifferent to those things. See, God has nothing to offer the wicked, so why should they care?
If I'm wicked, you have preached nothing to convince me whether of the things in this life or the next to desire anything else but to continue be wicked. Now if I could no longer be wicked, that would suck. But that is not what your preaching. You never preached that I could no longer be wicked.
Brian, Finn_Jarber is right when he says that everyone is born with sin. Ask yourself this, how can a baby die if it doesnt' have sin? Then support from the scriptures how one can die at all without sin.
I do not agree with the idea that a baby is "lost" from birth.
While it is true that each one of us takes on the Adam 1 nature, it is even more true that we all take on the Adam 2 nature as well. In fact, this Second (Divine) Adam Nature is what will save us in the end.
This is the difference between those before Christ died and after.
Many a child has been scarred emotionally by being told that he wasn't wanted. This is a terrible thing to say to anyone, period.
Yet this is the exact same message heard from most evangelical pulpits. "God loves you, BUT...."
Such a message is not Love at all. If God made man a sinner, it was only in order to make him a saint later.
Hereby we learn that our very being depends on God, and God alone.
I do not agree with the idea that a baby is "lost" from birth.
While it is true that each one of us takes on the Adam 1 nature, it is even more true that we all take on the Adam 2 nature as well. In fact, this Second (Divine) Adam Nature is what will save us in the end.
Brian, the we are of the body of Adam and therefore have sin as soon as we are born. We have his condemnation at birth. So it isn't just that we have his nature but we have the sin and the judgement placed upon him. This is why the redeemer had to be born of a virgin so as not to be under the same condemnation of being of the body of Adam under his seed.
Quote:
This is the difference between those before Christ died and after.
Many a child has been scarred emotionally by being told that he wasn't wanted. This is a terrible thing to say to anyone, period.
Yet this is the exact same message heard from most evangelical pulpits. "God loves you, BUT...."
Such a message is not Love at all. If God made man a sinner, it was only in order to make him a saint later.
Hereby we learn that our very being depends on God, and God alone.
Blessings in our Savior,
brian
Paul is the one teaching us of how we are under sin even if we didn't sin. To tell others they are ALREADY saved is ERROR. Jesus Christ must put down sin in everyone before they shall be saved. This doesn't negate universal salvation. The eventually savlation of all will happen. But you must understand that ANYONE (exluding Christ) that says they don't possess sin (whether they themselves have sinned personally) is a liar because we all have the sin of Adam (even from birth). So Adam's sin is ours also as members of his body.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Brian, the we are of the body of Adam and therefore have sin as soon as we are born. We have his condemnation at birth. So it isn't just that we have his nature but we have the sin and the judgement placed upon him. This is why the redeemer had to be born of a virgin so as not to be under the same condemnation of being of the body of Adam under his seed.
Paul is the one teaching us of how we are under sin even if we didn't sin. To tell others they are ALREADY saved is ERROR. Jesus Christ must put down sin in everyone before they shall be saved. This doesn't negate universal salvation. The eventually savlation of all will happen. But you must understand that ANYONE (exluding Christ) that says they don't possess sin (whether they themselves have sinned personally) is a liar because we all have the sin of Adam (even from birth). So Adam's sin is ours also as members of his body.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I agree with your first paragraph. We have inherited an Old Adam nature, as well as the sin, condemnation and death. (a package deal)
Paul says some interesting things in his letters. In Romans 7, he states that it isn't he who does the sinning, but the sin in him that does it.
I don't negate that not all people are walking in the New Nature. It simply means that they have not been "quickened" to know it yet.
"Confessing sin" is admitting that we still have the Old Nature.
But just as we have inherited the one, we shall inherit (or receive payment for).
It seems quite plain, that mankind has been receiving payment for Adam's sin for a long time now!
Since Calvary, we are hopefully beginning to receive payment of the Better Promise!
It is not logic, it is God's rules. He says you will be judged according to your works, ad this means two things:
1. If you are a believer, your works will be judged and you will be rewarded accordingly
2. If you are a person who rejected God, your sins will be judged accordingly. I do not beleive that Gandhi and Hitler will share a room.
What do we know about mother Theresa? Why do you say she was not saved? She may have had hew crises of faith, but that does not mean she was not saved
It is logic. Maybe you do not agree with it but it is. If it is possible for you to do so, strip the God thing out of your mind, do you agree that we go out there and kill every woman and child?
I would not. I do not believe in killing civilians just like that to take a piece of land. Maybe you would. I do not know. Now, bring God back into the picture. If I as an imperfect human being can come up with with something humane like that in war God cannot do the same being the all caring and humane God you and other tell me?
If a am believer? What am I suppose to beleive? The reason I tell yo this because I sat down with my son-in-law and he said he believes the Bible is true in ever single word written in it because it comes from God. OK, with that in mind he also stated the Caholic Church and other Christian churrches are not following the the Bible exactly by the way it is supposed to be. From his standpoint they are not totally following the truth so they are not accepted in the eyes of God. I cited Mother Theresa and in his opinion she is not following the true word of God. I have brought up this same thing to at least three other people and they have agreed. Wow!!
Look at you guys here in the religion forum how you argue so much. I know that the concept of hell was banned from discussion because the way loving Christians were so mean to each other that it was not a good environment, how sad. I was surprised when I heard about the ban and asked the managers about it and I got the reason I stated.
I may sound harsh but that is not my intent at all when I am being very direct. When you said it is not logic, it is God's rules. To me that is having a close mind to hear other peoples views. You do not seem at least open to hear my logic. What to do? Dismiss it as not logic. Why not step back and think and maybe there is a part of the Bible that may not be clear enough and need a closer look. That does not mean you are going to dismiss God. To me it means you are looking deeper in understanding his word as you claim the Bible is, take care.
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