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This is calvinism, which I have no interest in discussing. Sorry JAA. With all due respect, I'm sure you are very sincere in your beliefs, but I see calvinism as one of the most destructive, evil doctrines on the planet.
There's really nothing I could ever say to you that would matter, so I won't waste my time.
Katie
Fair enough. I really try to avoid the term "calvinism".
But you are correct. I do sincerely believe that this form of doctrine is entirely biblical.
But all we really have to do is tell people that in spite of our sins God has made a way of salvation, and simply share from the Scriptures those verses that speak to the necessity of coming to Christ to become saved....that outiside of Christ there is no other way. We can assure them that those who come to Christ will in no wise be cast out.
Just as long as we share that message faithfully and biblically (just as you say....only declare what the Bible says), we don't have to present a theological dissertation when we share the gospel. Just say what the Bible says.
Fair enough. I really try to avoid the term "calvinism".
But you are correct. I do sincerely believe that this form of doctrine is entirely biblical.
But all we really have to do is tell people that in spite of our sins God has made a way of salvation, and simply share from the Scriptures those verses that speak to the necessity of coming to Christ to become saved....that outiside of Christ there is no other way. We can assure them that those who come to Christ will in no wise be cast out.
Just as long as we share that message faithfully and biblically (just as you say....only declare what the Bible says), we don't have to present a theological dissertation when we share the gospel. Just say what the Bible says.
He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”Acts 16:30
A: They (Paul and Silas) replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” Acts 16:31
Acts 16:31 is the foundation of the "by faith alone"
then what happened next .... Paul and Silas followed Christ's command:
"At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized. "
Why? "immediately he and all his family were baptized "
A: John 3:5
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
A: Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16 .... quailifies that it's only because of not believing is what damns (which seems to contradict the first portion of the verse by human reasoning).
By human reasoning maybe, but Jesus never contradicted Himself. Jesus makes a promise in this verse. He says those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. That's good enough for me. I believe Him. If someone chooses to not be baptized, then he is willfully disobeying a command of Jesus, and no one will enter heaven who disobeys. That is a fact!
read James 2: 14-17 and tell me what you think... in fact, read the whole chapter... its short enough and i think a benefit to all who read it.
is your response to katiemygirl, in effect, that you can be saved without works?
i've said this here before and i'll say it again... you are not saved by one thing to the exclusion of all the others.
I have no trouble with what Jerwade is saying, because it's faith in it that produces the works. It's the easiest thing in the world to say we have faith.
That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus. Philemon 1:6
This is a great explanation of effectual faith drawing upon the grace of God.It is not saying alright show me your works, it's saying your faith is effectual when you acknowledge every good thing in you which is in Christ.
I have no trouble with what Jerwade is saying, because it's faith in it that produces the works. It's the easiest thing in the world to say we have faith.
That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus. Philemon 1:6
This is a great explanation of effectual faith drawing upon the grace of God.It is not saying alright show me your works, it's saying your faith is effectual when you acknowledge every good thing in you which is in Christ.
katie asked: Can a man who does no good works be saved?
read the scriptures and tell me you'd be confident in saying that, "Yes. you can."
That's what Jerwade said.
i do not agree with that. its wrong.
Now can God save whoever He wants? sure! according to the scriptures, i wouldn't bet on that to save me. give me an opportunity to produce works and I'll do it. I'll do it because of my faith, my love for God. My desire to please Him. My desire to be a good person.
I"m not waiting for someone else to do good works to get me in Heaven. That's not happening.
I think he was getting at we are saved by Jesus. That's true. His answer was to the wrong question if i am assuming correctly.
katie asked: Can a man who does no good works be saved?
read the scriptures and tell me you'd be confident in saying that, "Yes. you can."
That's what Jerwade said.
i do not agree with that. its wrong.
Now can God save whoever He wants? sure! according to the scriptures, i wouldn't bet on that to save me. give me an opportunity to produce works and I'll do it. I'll do it because of my faith, my love for God. My desire to please Him. My desire to be a good person.
I"m not waiting for someone else to do good works to get me in Heaven. That's not happening.
I think he was getting at we are saved by Jesus. That's true. His answer was to the wrong question if i am assuming correctly.
Atomkirk
Faith in His grace will change a man, it's not a hard concept. It is God who works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
To be quite frank the question of good works should be posed to ourselves and not others,do we really have complete faith in his grace that it's evident in our own lives, if it's not, it's only a matter of refocusing what our faith is in,and not beating ourselves or others up because they are not too.
Last edited by pcamps; 10-06-2011 at 11:45 AM..
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