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Does God give the gift to the believer? Or does a pastor/preacher/church leader give the gift to the person at water baptism ritual?
Acts 8:14-19 states:
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Of course Peter responded by telling Simon that this gift cannot be purchased by money, but that a topic for another thread. The verses quoted above, however, make it clear that "through laying on of the apostles' hand the Holy Ghost was given." That's how it was done anciently. I believe that's how it is to be done today, to.
I should mention, though, that I believe it is entirely possible for a person to feel the influence or power of the Holy Ghost without having actually had hands laid on his head and being given "the gift of the Holy Ghost." The Gift of the Holy Ghost is the blessing of having the constant companionship of a member of the Godhead, and it is conferred by authority such as the apostles had.
Why do some stress that forgiveness and the Holy Spirit comes during a physical baptism? Acts 2:38 is cited.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Because of a lack of understanding what is meant by the scriptures which they use for a proof text of their false teaching that water baptism is a requirement for salvation. And also because many people are simply legalistic and therefore reject the principle of grace.
Quote:
Why did Peter state this?
First, let me point out what Peter said in Acts 10 as he was witnessing to Gentiles.
Acts 10:43 ''Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.'' (Note that the only thing Peter mentions here is to believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.)
10:44] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. (Notice that the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who had simply listened to Peter's message and as a result, believed in Jesus Christ. This happened before being water baptized as they were about to be).
10:45 'And all the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also. 46] For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God (tongues was a temporary spiritual gift which is no longer given to believers). Then Peter answered,
10:47 ''Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?'' 48] And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
Notice that Peter gave the gospel message, the Gentiles believed and their sins were forgiven, and they received the indwelling and the fillng (two different salvation ministries of the Holy Spirit) of the Holy Spirit, and then Peter ordered them to be baptized in water. They were already forgiven of their sins, and they already had received the Holy Spirit before Peter ordered them to be water baptized.
1) Peter gave the gospel.
2) The Gentiles believed the gospel message.
3) As a result of believing in Christ, they were forgiven their sins, and they were indwelted by the Holy Spirit.
4) After all the above, they then underwent the ritual of water baptism as a public testimony of their faith in Christ.
Now, regarding Acts 2:38, if you take it to mean what it seems to say at first glance, then it would be contradicting not only what Acts 10:43-47 says, but it would also be contradicting all the other passages which say to simply believe in Christ in order to be saved. Peter would be contradicting himself in the two passages. And of course, he was not contradicting himself.
The NASB Study Bible footnote for Romans 6:3-4 in relating it to Acts 2:38 states that 'In NT times baptism so closely followed conversion that the two were considered to be part of one event (see Acts 2:38 and note)'. That footnote is not saying that water baptism was considered to be necessary for salvation. Only that it was considered a duty to be performed by those who had been saved.
Water baptism graphically pictures what takes place with the real baptism of the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.
The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by the Dallas Seminary Facilty, concerning Acts 2:38 mentions that one view sees Acts 2:38 as being parenthetical.
(3) A third view takes the clause and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ as parenthetical. Several factors support this interpretation: (a) The verb makes a distinction between singular and plural verbs and nouns. The verb ''repent'' is plural and so is the pronoun ''your'' in the clause so that your sins may be forgiven (lit., ''unto the remission of your sins,'' eis aphesin tōn hamartiōn hymōn). Therefore the verb ''repent'' must go with the purpose of forgiveness of sins. On the other hand the imperative ''be baptized'' is singular, setting it off from the rest of the sentence. (b) This concept fits with Peter's proclamation in Acts 10:43 in which the same expression ''sins may be forgiven'' (aphesin hamartiōn) occurs. There it is granted on the basis of faith alone. (c) In Luke 24:47 and Acts 5:31 the same writer, Luke indicates that repentance results in remission of sins.
And by the way, repentance is simultaneous with believing in Christ. You can't believe without repenting, and you can't repent without believing. The word translated as repent is 'Metanioa' which means to have a change of mind. With regard to Christ, there was a time you didn't believe in Christ. You heard the gospel and as a result, you then believed in Christ. You changed your mind about Christ - you repented. Metanioa is also used in connection with dead works.
Hebrews 6:1 'Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God.
All right. I don't intend to get into yet another debate over whether water baptism is necessary for salvation. It is not.
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-19-2011 at 05:06 PM..
The indwelling of God the Holy Spirit is one of at least 40 things which the church-age believer receives from God at the moment of faith alone in Christ alone. Water baptism has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Water baptism is merely a testimony to the believers personal faith in Christ.
I agree. Water baptism is only a public demonstration of faith. Only people who have already been saved and received the holy spirit should ever be baptised.
What is this invisible gift anyway? is it the same gift that Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus find? The one that the Pope in Rome finds?
The gift which the OP refers to is the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit, which is but one of seven salvation ministries of the Holy Spirit. At the moment of faith alone in Christ alone, believers in the dispensation of the church are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who indwells the believer for the purpose of making the believers body a temple for the indwelling of Jesus Christ as the shekinah glory (1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16).
The gift which the OP refers to is the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit, which is but one of seven salvation ministries of the Holy Spirit. At the moment of faith alone in Christ alone, believers in the dispensation of the church are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who indwells the believer for the purpose of making the believers body a temple for the indwelling of Jesus Christ as the shekinah glory (1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16).
seven salvation ministries??? Never mind that.
how does it actually happen? How does an immaterial entity dwell within a material existence? What are the observed effects of this phenomenon? Are they different from the observed effects seen in other religious movements? How does one of these "believers" truly experience the presence of a Holy Spirit within them?
What is the gift of the "indwelling of God"... how does it make you more gifted than someone without it?
You need first to have ministries for your family, spouse and kids , as this will prove to Jesus of your righteousness of Christ...... Next you need to pray for gifts of Holy Spirit in the church for people other than your self and be a watchmen for what gifts are in thought are needed...... Next you need to pray for more of Jesus and pray for revival of Spirit for yourself and others in your church and other churches down the road ......you need to resist sin and even fight the devil to leave you alone and pray to Jesus to help you resist sin to move closer to Jesus .....This should get heaven attention to help because these ideas are all in the will of God and God answers prayer in the will of God ... As time goes on Jesus will give you a gift of His Spirit so Holy Spirit will have some thing to do in Jesus Works thorough you, and you will have to move your mouth to give your faith in the gifts and you will have to do research into the Word of God to being a Word to believe so the gifts of Holy Spirit can be enhanced , and you will have to protect Holy Spirit by resisting sin that could bring irreverence to Holy Spirit ...... Be Blessed In Christ....
Does God give the gift to the believer? Or does a pastor/preacher/church leader give the gift to the person at water baptism ritual?
Hi saved33. I'm going to explain it to you easily because it is simply. Jesus said here:
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Notice that Jesus said His words ARE Spirit. How can that be. Think about this - put your hand against your mouth and blow against it. It is just AIR but now say a word and that same breath of air carries something - what does it carry? - meaning. It carries knowledge. It carries a communication (communion).
So Jesus is still today giving us the Spirit through those same words being delivered by all those that preached them since the beginning. But those words mean nothing if we don't believe in what they contain or rather the meaning they intend to impart.
So if we believe in what Jesus said - in His Words then we are receiving the Spirit of God as we believe in those words and conform to who He is.
Now let me give you another perspective. If I said to you to write down everything about you on a piece of paper leaving out the physical attributes about so as to only have on the paper the character of YOU. Now I take YOUR list of items on the paper and take them to someone else and tell that person to become the items that are on YOUR list/paper then they will no longer be themselves but will have become YOU. This is how we become the Children of God Himself because Jesus brought us the Father in the very words that Jesus Spoke.
I hope this helps. Remember the physical things are only aids to understand the spiritual things - it is the Spiritual things that are the significance.
how does it actually happen? How does an immaterial entity dwell within a material existence? What are the observed effects of this phenomenon? Are they different from the observed effects seen in other religious movements? How does one of these "believers" truly experience the presence of a Holy Spirit within them?
What is the gift of the "indwelling of God"... how does it make you more gifted than someone without it?
Matt. 3:16-17 - After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
Don't get sidetracked w/ Jesus' water baptism - it was an entirely different situation.
As far as the Spirit goes, the Spirit comes from God in heaven. John the Baptist was permitted to see this visibly as well as hearing God's voice from heaven. Normally, it is an invisible transaction.
Jesus' ministry & miracles did not commence until He received the Spirit. For us, we should see a changed life that focuses on matters of God rather than matters of the world.
The Holy Spirit resides within our spirits. It bears witness to us that we are part of God's family (Romans 8:16).
He is given to all believers.
Rom. 5:5 - and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
2 Cor. 5:5 - Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.
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