How does one receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit? (dogma, Moses)

[MissKate12]

[quote=Richard1965;21406085]

Originally Posted by katiemygirl

You do know that she is atheist, don't you?....However, I am not comparing you to that attribute but to the attribute that she always referrs to herself in the third person...Which makes me smile...

That's the part that makes me smile too. The only reason I did that was because instead of Mike addressing me directly, he kept saying "Katie claims this and Katie claims that." I laughed out loud when I read his post. It made me realize just how passionate we all are about what we believe. He said he wasn't going to debate me anymore, so I guess this was his way of getting around that. Too funny!

[MissKate12]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

You are misunderstanding me...I agree 100% with you here...I was speaking of Baptism...If it is a requirement for ALL believers, that would include the thief on the cross...Baptism is an outward confession of an inward change...It is not a requirement but an inward desire to profess...however, staing that it IS a requirement for Salvation is misleading people...IF it was a requirement set up by Jeshua for all believers then that would apply to the Cross...I think the whole Cross scene was set up by Hawyaw to show that it is indeed FAITH in Jeshua that saves and not of anything that we do...If our inner man changes by Faith then our outward man will reflect that...I believe this is what James was conveying...

Rich, I already explained to you that baptism was not required under the old Law. The thief lived and died under the old Law. Jesus didn't command baptism until after He arose from the dead. The thief was already dead by then. Are you intentionally ignoring that? Is there some part of this you disagree with?

Katie

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by katiemygirl

Okay Rich, you asked for it, so here it is. I'll start with Abram. You believe Abram didn't do works?

Abram was righteous from the time we first meet him in Genesis 12:1. When God told Abram to do something, he did it. God told him to leave his homeland. He did it without question. He had no idea where he was going. He built altars to God and worshipped Him. He called on the name of the Lord. HE CALLED ON THE NAME OF THE LORD! Works my friend. Those are works.

Katie

OK, Katie me girl...Abram starts in chapter 11 after the lists of the descendants of the three sons of Noah...It was Terah that took everyone and split from UR of the Chaldees and went toward the Land of Caanan however, they came to Haran and dwelt there...It was here that Hawyaw first called Abram from HARAN...And the things you describe as works were exhibited AFTER Abram showed faith in Hawyaw...NOT before...Since he truly had faith in Hawyaw's Words, it would be natural to do as He commands...Abram had the Faith of a little child...

Gen_11:26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
Gen_11:27 Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
Gen_11:29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.
Gen_11:31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
Gen_12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen_12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
Gen_12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
Gen_12:6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.
Gen_12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
Gen_12:9 And Abram journeyed, going on still toward the south.
Gen_12:10 And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.
Gen_12:14 And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair.
Gen_12:16 And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.
Gen_12:17 And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.
Gen_12:18 And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?
Gen_13:1 And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.
Gen_13:2 And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.
Gen_13:4 Unto the place of the altar, which he had made there at the first: and there Abram called on the name of the LORD.
Gen_13:5 And Lot also, which went with Abram, had flocks, and herds, and tents.
Gen_13:7 And there was a strife between the herdmen of Abram's cattle and the herdmen of Lot's cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land.
Gen_13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.
Gen_13:12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom.
Gen_13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
Gen_13:18 Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD.
Gen_14:12 And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.
Gen_14:13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.
Gen_14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
Gen_14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen_14:21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.
Gen_14:22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
Gen_14:23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
Gen_15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Gen_15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
Gen_15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
Gen_15:11 And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.
Gen_15:12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Gen_15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Gen_15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Gen_16:1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.
Gen_16:2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
Gen_16:3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
Gen_16:5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
Gen_16:6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.
Gen_16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Gen_16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
Gen_17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Gen_17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
Gen_17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
1Ch_1:27 Abram; the same is Abraham.
Neh_9:7 Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;

[MissKate12]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

A person is Justified by Hawyaw alone, according to Paul...

I have a confession to make. I have never heard the term "Hawyaw." Can you enlighten me?

Also I am not connecting the dots. Are you saying that faith and works do not justify?

And with those questions, Katie bids you good nite. She is tired, and her brain needs to rest up for more debates tomorrow.

God Bless, and thanks for your good attitude (even if your doctrine is messed up.) JK

Katie

[Yokie]

[quote=katiemygirl;21353489]I completely agree with you that the tongues thing is a BIG FAKE. I also agree with you that God speaks to us through our consciences. /quote]

This is something I personally know about. What you say about speaking in tongues is not completely true. Yes, there are some churches in which speaking in tongues is fakery, even "taught" which is something that cannot be done.

However, there is also genuine speaking in tongues. Those who lead a Godly life are able to discern the difference.

Even within a church in which there is genuine speaking in tongues, there is also fakery by some, but not all. Discernment is the key.

--Yokie

[Princely]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

My family name means 'Lion of Judah'...If you are truly who you say you are then your grammar and spelling would be immpeccable...Jesus sent you?...Please!...First you speak as the Messiah then you say that Jeshua sent you...

Yes, Jesus sent me. I came down from heaven to do the will of my Father. "I know the Lord and I keep His words".

You speak like the world which shows you belong to the world.Scripture says that those who are sent by God they speak the words of God.

The works I do in my Fathers name bear witness for me but you do not want to come to me to possess those works.

"The son of man will come at a time you least expect".

My teaching is not my own it comes from the one who sent me.
Whoever chooses to do his will shall know about this teaching namely, whether it comes from God or whether I‘m speaking on my own.
Whoever speaks on his own seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful, and there is no dishonesty in his heart.
Stop judging by appearances, judge justly.
Yet I did not come on my own, the one who is true sent me, Him you do not know.
I know him, because I come from him, he’s the one who sent me.
Let anyone who thirsts come to me and drink.
Whoever believes in me, as scripture says: Rivers of living water will flow from within him.

You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
You belong to what is below, I belong to what is above. You belong to this world, but I do not belong to this world. That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

If you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I only say what the Lord has taught me.
For the one who sent me is with me. He has not deserted me, because I always do what pleases him.
If you carry on in my words, you are truly be my disciple,
then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

If the son frees you,you will truly be free.

Seek the Lord, all you humble of the earth, who have observed his law; Seek justice, seek humility; perhaps you may be sheltered on the day of the Lord’s anger.

[garya123]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

You are misunderstanding me...I agree 100% with you here...I was speaking of Baptism...If it is a requirement for ALL believers, that would include the thief on the cross...Baptism is an outward confession of an inward change...It is not a requirement but an inward desire to profess...however, staing that it IS a requirement for Salvation is misleading people...IF it was a requirement set up by Jeshua for all believers then that would apply to the Cross...I think the whole Cross scene was set up by Hawyaw to show that it is indeed FAITH in Jeshua that saves and not of anything that we do...If our inner man changes by Faith then our outward man will reflect that...I believe this is what James was conveying...

It is desire indeed as you say that wants to fulfill what Jesus commanded. But a desire put in the heart by the Spirit, not the letter of the law. Seeing that it is put there by the Spirit then we can and should do it.

Of coarse water itself does not save but a good confession and obedience will show your genuine conversion and witness to the world. It is part of the salvation message even though the water itself does not save. I think I made that clear but in these matters it is often misunderstood. I hope I am making it clear this time around.

God has chosen what the world considers foolishness to confound the wise and bring His way to their attention. The only command that the thief had was to be in Paradise with Jesus because he could do nothing more to show his gratitude and love for his salvation but to the rest of us, we have His commands to show His love, whether it be baptism or any other work of God. No work in and of itself will save but it is the fruit of salvation and can not be separated from faith.

[garya123]

Originally Posted by Mike555

A person either understands that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, or he tries to work and earn your salvation. If you try to work for your salvation you are simply working yourself deeper and deeper into a dept you can never pay. Those who work for eternal salvation are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire. Eternal life is offered only as a free gift which is received through faith alone. If you are trusting in your works, then you are not trusting only in the work of Christ which results in no salvation.

Those who say that you must be baptized in water in order to be saved from eternal condemnation are teaching a false gospel and misleading others. The issue of what is required for salvation has to be understood.

There you go again. Messing with my words. I said as Jesus said, "Believe and be baptized" not just be baptized. Do you see the little word and. It is the same word that Jesus used. Take it up with Him. Perhaps you can get Him to change His mind. As for me, I would not dare to. Take a deep breath and focus on the word and. Well, all that put aside, I know you are a great brother and love the Lord with all your heart even though we are at odds sometimes because the minds of two or more do not always see perfectly as one but the Spirit overcomes. To know the love of God and to love one another is the key. Patience is a great gift and very needed.

[O-Ducky]

According to Yahushua, first you absolutely must repent of sin and be water baptized for the remission of sins, and then He will baptize you into His Holy Spirit. But, remember He also said that we recieve the Holy Spirit by "asking for it". If we want the Holy Spirit we must pray for it, ourselves. It is the will of God that we search for Him like hidden treasures and for His Holy Spirit's annointing in our life. Once your born again, if you don't continue to pray for this you will not be saved. You will continue to live in sin and without even realizing it you will be totally blind to Spiritual things and you will be walking in the flesh. That's very dangerous, especially in these days. Try this, spend the next week waking up every single morning, crying out for more of God's presence in your life... if your born again... and see what happens. Begin to show God how much you love Him by crying out to Him.

[Dusty Rhodes]

How does one receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit?

I don't see this as a gift, I suspect it is more of a bane that causes the brain to slam shut. At least, this has been my observation.