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To the contrary. I understand what you are saying, but you misunderstand what I said. The following is your statement in post #62.
''God knew that they would obey unto baptism and more and so granted them salvation. Baptism is for many the first work that shows you have repented and for others it comes later. If the Acts 10 people did not get baptized then it would have shown disobedience and they would have become unlawful to Christs lawful commands. It is written, "The Spirit is given to those who obey" and in another place "Jesus did not commit Himself to certain ones even though they believed because He knew the hearts of all men."
It is written, "Why call Me Lord, Lord and do not the things that I say." Faith is void if you do not obey. Of coarse water of itself does not wash away sins, only the blood does that, But it is the faith coupled by obeying that does. You will be judged by your works, not Faith on the day of judgment because faith without works is dead. Your works inspired of the Spirit will tell the story. "I may have faith to remove mountains but if I do not have love [that obeys] then I am nothing"
You clearly state that you believe that the reason that God granted salvation to the Gentile believers in Acts 10:42-48 before they were baptized in water is because God knew that they would 'obey unto baptism and more'. You link obedience with belief in Christ as the criteria for salvation.
Now, I will be clear. Lordship salvation is a HERESY. Obedience is NOT a criteria for salvation. EXCEPT THE ONE COMMAND THAT THE UNBELIEVER CAN OBEY. The command to obey the gospel which simply means to believe in Christ. You cannot impose the obedience which is necessary for the believer to be a disciple on the unbeliever whose only obedience can be to believe in Christ. God does not grant salvation on the basis of whether a believer will obey Him after believing in Christ. God gives eternal salvation as a free gift ONLY on the basis of faith in the Person and work of Christ on the Cross.
Disobedience on the part of the believer after salvation results in divine discipline, and a loss of blessing in both time and eternity. It does not result in a loss of eternal salvation.
Eternal salvation is a matter of faith in Jesus Christ totally devoid of any works.
But discipleship after salvation requires obedience.
Every disciple of Christ is a believer, but not every believer is a disciple. Every believer is eternally saved whether he is a disciple or not.
Your statement "The Spirit is given to those who obey" refers to Acts 5:32 ''And so we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.''
You assume that that statement refers to obeying the command to among other things, being baptised in water. But it does not. The word 'obey' is translated from the Greek word 'peitharcheó' which means...
HELPS Word-studies
3980 peitharxéō (from 3982 /peíthō, " persuade" and 746/arxē, "what comes first") – properly, persuaded of what must come first, i.e. what has priority (the higher authority).
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
From a compound of peitho and archo; to be persuaded by a ruler, i.e. (genitive case) to submit to authority; by analogy, to conform to advice -- hearken, obey (magistrates).
With regard to receiving eternal life, the word 'obey' refers to simply being persuaded by the gospel message under the common grace ministry of God the Holy Spirit that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that salvation is only possible because of His finished work on the cross.
To disobey in the context of eternal salvation means to refuse to be persuaded - to refuse to believe in Jesus Christ.
When Jesus was asked what the works (PLURAL) of God were that they might be done for salvation, Jesus replied that there was only one work (SINGULAR) of God for salvation. TO BELIEVE IN HIM. TO BE PERSUADED THAT HE IS WHO HE SAYS HE IS. A person who desires an eternal relationship with God will be persuaded by the gospel message. A person who does not desire an eternal relationship with God will refuse to be persuaded. He will refuse to believe in Christ - to place his faith in Christ.
John 6:27 'Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man shall give to you, for on Him the Father, even God, has set His seal.''
28] They said therefore to Him, ''What shall we do, that we may work the works (erga - PLURAL) of God?''
29] Jesus answered and said to them, ''This is the work (ergon - SINGULAR) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.''
The Jews to whom Jesus was speaking mistakenly thought that there were certain works of God which they had to do for eternal salvation. Jesus corrected their misconception by telling them that there was ONLY one work of God which they must do for eternal life. And that one work which was non-meritorius, was to simply believe in Him. To obey the gospel message in being persuaded that He was the Messiah. Not to be baptized in water, and not anything else. Simply believe in Him.
Once again. Lordship salvation is nothing other than salvation by works and is a heresy. You are not eternally saved by obedience to the commands of Jesus. You are eternally saved by obeying the one command the unbeliever can obey. To be persuaded that Jesus Christ is the one who did all the work necessary to provide salvation for those who will believe in Him.
JN 2:23 "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
JN 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because He knew all men,
JN 2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man."
"Why call Me Lord, Lord and do not the things that I say"
That is only a drop in the bucket from the whole well...
Teaching faith alone for salvation is a false gospel. You will never find a single example of anyone who was ever saved by faith alone in the entire Bible. Faith Alone = Dead Faith. Faith without works is the same as faith alone. It is dead.
A person is justified by faith and works. Grace is the gift freely given WHEN we do the works commanded by God.
Salvation is conditional upon obedient faith. By grace you have been saved, through faith.
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
"Not by works" EXCLUDES the works of God. Doing the works of God gives no reason for boasting. Doing the works of God doesn't earn you salvation, nor does God owe you salvation for doing the works He commanded.
We are saved by grace through faith. And genuine faith always results in works. What works? The works of God, commanded by God, created by God, the works God prepared in advance for us to do.
The faith that saves is the faith that works. No one was ever saved who didn't have works and that includes Abraham, the father of faith.
There is a theme that runs continuously throughout the entire Bible, and that is OBEDIENCE. This is what draws the distinction between the saved and the lost. One obeys, the other disobeys. God demands obedience from His people. Without it, one is lost.
However, with the limited examples we have of tongues speaking in the NT, Tongues was a recognizable earthly language, not gibberish...No where in the NT is there an example of gibberish that no one could understand...There is no such thing as a personal prayer language...
Richard, please be careful with quotes. You have the words of YOKIE posted under my name. Those are his words, not mine.
See what happened Katie?...What is going on there?...Whay is the forum doing that?...
I don't think it was your fault. I have no idea what happened. But I know you didn't do it intentionally.
You asked me what grace was in an earlier post on this page. My answer is that is it an unearned favor. It's a free gift of God.
I do not for one minute believe faith, repentance, confession and baptism are things done to earn grace.
Faith, repentance, confession and baptism are works ordained by God, created by God for us to do. They are not included in "apart from works."
I asked you this same question in another thread. I believe you would agree that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Do you believe that the known and accepted translations we have today (KJV, NASV, etc.) are mistranslated?
Jeshua said during His ministry to believe and be baptized...That was before He went to the Cross...So, if baptism is an integral part of Salvation and one cannot be saved without it then that means that the thief is not saved either...OR...People are misunderstanding what was meant in the Letters...
No Rich, Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved," after His resurrection. He had already died on the cross along with the thief. Here are the scriptures to prove it.
1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3 and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?”
4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed. 6 “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen!
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
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