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Sorry to differ with so many of you, but Baptism does save, baptism is necessary, Baptism does give the Holy Spirit and Baptism, and Baptism can and should be given even to babies. Note the following texts.
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, NO ONE can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Many people, whenever they see the word water in the New Testament, automatically assume it refers to water baptism. It does not.
Being born of water has nothing to do with water baptism. Nor does it have anything to do with physical birth. In John 3:5, Jesus was talking to a Pharisee. To a Pharisee water had three different spiritual connotations. When Jesus gave the gospel to someone, He spoke to them in a way that they would understand.
1) Now, to a Pharisee water could mean salvation as in Isaiah 55:1 ''HO! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost. The sinner is pictured as being thirsty and coming to Christ for salvation. John 4:14 'but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.
2) Water could also refer to the water of the word as in Eph 5:26 'that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with (or by) the word.' In this verse, regeneration is pictured metaphorically as being cleansed by water as in Titus 3:5.
3) And finally, water could refer to the water of the Holy Spirit as in John 7:38. ''He who believes in Me, as the Scriptures said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.' '' 39] But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. See also Isaiah 44:3.
Now in John 3:5, the water of which Jesus spoke refers to the gospel message - the water of the word as in Eph 5:26.
Quote:
Ac 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ac 2:39 The promise is for YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN, and for all who are far off—for ALL whom the Lord our God will call."
Acts 2:38 was explained in post #12 of this thread.
Quote:
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He SAVED US THROUGH THE WASHING OF REBIRTH AND NENEWAL BY THE HOLY SPIRIT,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Again, Titus 3:5 simply metaphorically pictures regeneration - being born again, as being cleansed by water. The believer is cleansed from the filth of sin when he is born again through faith alone in Christ alone. This is not a reference to water baptism.
Well here is my take and you can best get support from scripture than from man, but we can be a purveyer of scripture since you inquired. Firstly, you receive the Holy Spirit once you REPENTare baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (for the forgiveness of your sins) Acts 2:38. Then things get interesting beacause the gift of the Holy Spirit is then PROMISED (2:39)(this isn't a maybe but as Peter clarifies it ...a SHALL) . and It's also a promise for your children and as scripture puts is the "far off' (defined as the gentiles) ...guys like me
Now you have received the Holy Spirit ....too simple? ....enjoy You may get the evidence of the infilling via tongues (glossagilia) I and my family did.
Pre-condition to receiving the Holy Spirit via these mentioned steps is that you earnestly "believe" in the Son of Man (Jesus Christ)
This is the official "born again" formula and not religions. (God bless them little critters)
Last edited by DASULAR17; 10-22-2011 at 01:02 AM..
Reason: formulating
Of course, it is showing that the baptism of the holy spirit is the only one that truly matters. Not being water baptized has to do with the earthly community, baptism of the holy spirit is where it counts and there will be no exceptions, where as water baptism there will be exceptions that cannot be accounted for.
Jesus commanded immersion in water when he gave the great commission. That command wa to last to the end of the ages. If baptism with HS is the one baptism then immersion in water is done. It shouldn't be happening a ny more.
Jesus told men to make disciple by baptizing them. There is no other way to become a disciple.
Well here is my take and you can best get support from scripture than from man, but we can be a purveyer of scripture since you inquired. Firstly, you receive the Holy Spirit once you REPENTare baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (for the forgiveness of your sins) Acts 2:38. Then things get interesting beacause the gift of the Holy Spirit is then PROMISED (2:39)(this isn't a maybe but as Peter clarifies it ...a SHALL) . and It's also a promise for your children and as scripture puts is the "far off' (defined as the gentiles) ...guys like me
Now you have received the Holy Spirit ....too simple? ....enjoy You may get the evidence of the infilling via tongues (glossagilia) I and my family did.
Pre-condition to receiving the Holy Spirit via these mentioned steps is that you earnestly "believe" in the Son of Man (Jesus Christ)
This is the official "born again" formula and not religions. (God bless them little critters)
You are correct. Acts 2:38 spells it out. This is a scripture which shows Peter carrying out the great commission.
He is telling the Jews to repent and be immersed in water for the forgiveness of their sins.
You are incorrect about tongues. Tongues have ceased. There is no purpose for them anymore. The full and complete revelation of God is written in the Bible. What could you possibly reveal to man that God hasn't already told us?
Mike555;21387761]Many people, whenever they see the word water in the New Testament, automatically assume it refers to water baptism. It does not.
You are preaching another gospel!
There is no other way to become a disciple of Jesus unless the command to be immersed in water is followed. Becoming a disciple by being immersed in water and being born of water and Spirit are one and the same being commanded by one and the same, Jesus Christ.
Sorry to differ with so many of you, but Baptism does save, baptism is necessary, Baptism does give the Holy Spirit and Baptism, and Baptism can and should be given even to babies. Note the following texts.
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, NO ONE can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Ac 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ac 2:39 The promise is for YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN, and for all who are far off—for ALL whom the Lord our God will call."
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He SAVED US THROUGH THE WASHING OF REBIRTH AND NENEWAL BY THE HOLY SPIRIT,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,
That is correct! BAPTISM SAVES!
I disagree with you about babies needing baptism. Jesus said , "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved."
Belief is a condition for salvation. Babies can't believe. Babies are innocent. "Of such are the kingdom of heaven." Babies have no sins to be washed away.
Does God give the gift to the believer? Or does a pastor/preacher/church leader give the gift to the person at water baptism ritual?
The "gift" of the Holy Spirit is God's Divine Love. To receive it, our soul must have an awakening... and after this happens, our soul longings become activated and the inflowing of the Love streams in.
The easiest way to receive it is to read this prayer The Prayer for the Divine Love (http://tinyurl.com/2cygf5s - broken link) continually until you receive it.
God's Divine Love envelops and surrounds each of us and it is ours for the asking whenever we want it.
The water baptism by John was symbolic of the cleansing power of God's Divine Love. This Love, which is the very Essence of God, removes our sins and eventually transforms our souls so that we become at-one with God. It is the only way to immortality and salvation. It is God's greatest gift delivered by His highest spiritual energy, His Holy Spirit.
There is no other way to become a disciple of Jesus unless the command to be immersed in water is followed. Becoming a disciple by being immersed in water and being born of water and Spirit are one and the same being commanded by one and the same, Jesus Christ.
Katie
I refer readers to post #31. References to water in the New Testament do not always refer to water baptism. Passages have been given. Make an effort to understand this.
Understand also that while every disciple of Jesus Christ is a believer in Jesus Christ, not every believer in Jesus Christ is a disciple. Being a disciple is a matter of picking up your cross and following Jesus.
Understand as well that eternal salvation is through faith alone in Christ alone, while the believers spiritual growth after salvation is a matter of studying and applying the principles and doctrines of the word of God to the circumstances of your life.
Paul made it clear that water baptism is not a part of the gospel. 1 Cor 1:17 'For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel...' Notice the distinction Paul made between the gospel and water baptism. The gospel is the good news concerning what Jesus did on the cross for us. The gospel is not about any works which we do.
The principle of legalism opposes the principle of grace. Legalists always attack grace and grace oriented believers.
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-22-2011 at 08:47 AM..
I completely agree with you that the tongues thing is a BIG FAKE. I also agree with you that God speaks to us through our consciences.
I don't agree with you about being saved by faith alone, but I'm glad that as an eight year old kid and as an adult that you were honest with yourself and never caved to peer pressure. Good for you Ilene!
Katie
Hab_2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Luk_17:6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
Act_3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Act_13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
Act_15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act_26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Rom_1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom_1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom_3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom_3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom_4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom_5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom_11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom_16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
1Co_12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
2Co_1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
2Co_5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
2Co_10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal_3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal_3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal_3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal_5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph_3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Eph_3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Php_3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
1Th_3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
1Th_3:7 Therefore, brethren, we were comforted over you in all our affliction and distress by your faith:
Phm_1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
Heb_10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb_11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Heb_11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb_11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb_11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb_11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb_11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb_11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb_11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb_11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb_11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb_11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb_11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb_11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb_11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb_11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb_11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Jas_2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas_2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Pe_1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Looks like it has to do with Faith more than anything else...
You need first to have ministries for your family, spouse and kids , as this will prove to Jesus of your righteousness of Christ...... Next you need to pray for gifts of Holy Spirit in the church for people other than your self and be a watchmen for what gifts are in thought are needed...... Next you need to pray for more of Jesus and pray for revival of Spirit for yourself and others in your church and other churches down the road ......you need to resist sin and even fight the devil to leave you alone and pray to Jesus to help you resist sin to move closer to Jesus .....This should get heaven attention to help because these ideas are all in the will of God and God answers prayer in the will of God ... As time goes on Jesus will give you a gift of His Spirit so Holy Spirit will have some thing to do in Jesus Works thorough you, and you will have to move your mouth to give your faith in the gifts and you will have to do research into the Word of God to being a Word to believe so the gifts of Holy Spirit can be enhanced , and you will have to protect Holy Spirit by resisting sin that could bring irreverence to Holy Spirit ...... Be Blessed In Christ....
Can you back that up with scripture?...Sounds like a lot of Pentacostalism to me...Where in scripture does it say to fight the Devil?...And how does one get MORE of Jesus?...Where is that in Scripture?...And it says draw closer to Hawyaw and He will draw closer to you...
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