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... how does it make you more gifted than someone without it?
1 Cor. 12:4-11 - Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
Simple terms - just like peole are born with individual traits and gifts - so are those who receive the Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives believers special abilities to perform different tasks within God's family.
how does it actually happen? How does an immaterial entity dwell within a material existence? What are the observed effects of this phenomenon? Are they different from the observed effects seen in other religious movements? How does one of these "believers" truly experience the presence of a Holy Spirit within them?
What is the gift of the "indwelling of God"... how does it make you more gifted than someone without it?
The Persons of the trinity are Spirit (in His humanity, Jesus has a resurrected body, but as deity, He is Spirit. God is omnipresent - everywhere present, but He is not a part of His creation. He is separate from it. But He is involved with His creation. In this period of human history - this dispensation, God manifests His presence in a special way to and in believers for specific reasons. Just as the immaterial soul and spirit of man resides in his material body, so too does God come to indwell those who believe in Christ for salvation.
Christianity is not a religious movement. It is a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Only believers in Christ have eternal life, and only believers in Christ are indwelled by the Holy Spirit.
Since the Christian way of life is a supernatural way of life, it requires a supernatural means of execution. It requires the filling of the Holy Spirit which is another one of the seven salvation ministries of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the power in the spiritual life of the believer (Eph 5:18, Gal 3:2, 5:14, 5:16; Rom 8:9).
The believer does not experience or feel the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He is simply enpowered by the Holy Spirit to execute the spiritual life. More accurately, it is the Holy Spirit who executes the spiritual life.
The church-age believer has many advantages over believers of any other dispensation. For instance, he is in union with Christ and so shares the Sonship, heirship, royalty, and Righteousness of Christ, the destiny of Christ, and other things.
Matt. 3:16-17 - After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
Don't get sidetracked w/ Jesus' water baptism - it was an entirely different situation.
As far as the Spirit goes, the Spirit comes from God in heaven. John the Baptist was permitted to see this visibly as well as hearing God's voice from heaven. Normally, it is an invisible transaction.
Jesus' ministry & miracles did not commence until He received the Spirit. For us, we should see a changed life that focuses on matters of God rather than matters of the world.
The Holy Spirit resides within our spirits. It bears witness to us that we are part of God's family (Romans 8:16).
He is given to all believers.
Rom. 5:5 - and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
2 Cor. 5:5 - Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.
That was all very verbose... What I am understanding is that you believe that the "gift of the Holy Spirit" is a pledge that God accepts you into his family... is that correct?
but how can this pledge reside within your body? and How can these pledges be observed to exist outside of your own believes? I mean, the Jews and other ancient people's were making pledges with gods much before Jesus came along. I want to know what is unique about this gift?
is it immortality? is it eternal bliss? What I'm wondering is... how is this gift used, which makes it better than other gifts that might accomplish the same things...
... wait, now that I read your second post, I see that you mean that the "gift" is varied from individual to individual and is comprised of specific "special abilities" ... such as healing powers. Doesn't science also provide all of these abilities?
Quote:
1 Cor. 12:4-11 - Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
Could you go a little bit into what all of these specific abilities mean... and Why not all of the abilities at the same time?
I think it would be quite easy to test if these abilities are actually gained, and whether some of them even exist.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 10-19-2011 at 07:53 PM..
That was all very verbose... What I am understanding is that you believe that the "gift of the Holy Spirit" is a pledge that God accepts you into his family... is that correct?
That is one of the things the Holy Spirit does for us. Pledge meaning believers are promised an inheritance in the life to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
but how can this pledge reside within your body?
All humans have a body (physical), soul (thoughts), and spirit (conscience). The best I can explain is that the Holy Spirit resides with the believer's conscience. I can't explain how the Holy Spirit resides in us. I take it by faith. 1 Timothy 3:16 says that godliness is a mystery. We can't explain everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
... wait, now that I read your second post, I see that you mean that the "gift" is varied from individual to individual and is comprised of specific "special abilities" ... such as healing powers. Doesn't science also provide all of these abilities?
Healing by spiritual gifts occurs on command or by touch or by supernatural means like Jesus performed. The healing was immediate and complete. Science uses the intake of medicine to work through the body.
This gift is not as prominent today and some try to fake this ability. Again - the Spirit dispenses these gifts as He sees fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
Could you go a little bit into what all of these specific abilities mean... and Why not all of the abilities at the same time?
I think it would be quite easy to test if these abilities are actually gained, and whether some of them even exist.
Today, the prominent gifts are teaching, administration, giving, serving, pastoring, discernment. Gifts that have faded with time are healing, tongues, prophecy, and miracles.
I didn't read all the thread but did anyone mention having a birthday party and inviting the Holy Spirit? That way he can give you your gift personally.
We ALL received the Holy Spirit when Jesus died and His human consciousness was reborn as Spirit and made available to us ALL in our collective human consciousness, period. No magic needed. No ritual needed.
For the most part, those people I have known who claim to have been touched by the holy spirit, I really did not like spending much time with them. "holier than thou" isms get on my nerves.
The indwelling of God the Holy Spirit is one of at least 40 things which the church-age believer receives from God at the moment of faith alone in Christ alone. Water baptism has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Water baptism is merely a testimony to the believers personal faith in Christ.
AMEN! I agree with you. There is no waiting period. You accept Jesus you are instantly baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Sorry to differ with so many of you, but Baptism does save, baptism is necessary, Baptism does give the Holy Spirit and Baptism, and Baptism can and should be given even to babies. Note the following texts.
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, NO ONE can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Ac 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ac 2:39 The promise is for YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN, and for all who are far off—for ALL whom the Lord our God will call."
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He SAVED US THROUGH THE WASHING OF REBIRTH AND NENEWAL BY THE HOLY SPIRIT,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,
It's an automatic gift when we receive Jesus into our lives. It's not a fall down on your face, roll around on the floor with your eyes rolled back in your head kind of thing. Anyone can work themselves right up into their own little frenzy thinking it's the holy spirit and speak in tongues......that's complete and utter nonsense. Literally, nonsense speaking. I've been around enough of it to know what I'm talking about. I was never "slain" in the spirit, I never spoke in tongues unless you count the one word I uttered randomly because I was being pushed so hard by church members to speak in tongues at age 8, and I have tried to "feel" it, trust me, I tried.
But you know what always threw me for a loop? Is the behavior of said "tongue speakers" after the church service. It's all for show, it's staged and it's fake. The Spirit of God is much more subtle, and speaks to us quietly and patiently. We just have to listen to our own consciences, that's all it is. It's not some "phenomena" that most of the world is missing out on. All we need to do is accept Jesus Christ and there He is, the Holy Spirit to guide us. Jesus and the Holy Spirit, just hanging out in our hearts and minds doing a good work.
Wonderful post, Ilene. Hard to believe it was written just two days ago. Bless you. We all go through various spiritual phases. Some refer to it as a dry spell or a dark night, etc... wherein what we felt sure of suddenly seems to fly out the window and leave us wondering if anything is real or if anyone can know what truth is. Every honest believer I know will admit to this experience you're going through. However, some people are too afraid to even be honest with themselves. Fear is a powerful force that enables self-delusion.
Hope you don't disappear for good around here.
Heartsong
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