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I disagree, I believe Paul is trying to explain the "once and for all" aspect of Christ's sacrifice.
However, the verse is not the point of the OP. I can't seem to understand how a person can un-willfully sin.
Would un-willfully sinning be the same as un-knowingly sinning due to not having the intent to sin?
From the bold .... death at any age is a direct result of sin.
And also I don't reject God's Word simply because I don't like something in it 'cause it hurts my "feel goods"
This death comes at any age. The first death (physical death) is the result and punishment from the original sin. Of course there were other punishments but we are only speaking about the human death here.
This death does not. It depends on the. The second death (spiritual death after physical death) is the punishment of sinning without repenting and willing to change. It is also the result of not accepting, according the NT, Christ or god.
For crying out loud, twin! Just answer the question in your own words. I don't need a sermon. I'm just trying to understand a previous remark you made. Are you saying that all people must experience physical death because of Adam's sin or are you saying that all people must experience physical death because of their own sins?
Everything I try to write here is based on God's pov not mine.
Jesus revealed to Paul that "sin" is more than just one's actions, it is a state of fact. There is no such thing as being born sinless. Paul wrote that before the law was ever given...people still died. Therefore humanity is under the curse that was pronounced upon all of the creation.
No one comes out of the womb sinless... that is why 2 day old babies die, because they are a sinner. "The wages of sin is death"
This is what the law says that God revealed:
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die.The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son.
I can't suger coat it, your fundamental position that people are neutral blank slates prone to do good is against the clear revealed word of God ... that's if you truly hold the Bible as the benchmark.
This death comes at any age. The first death (physical death) is the result and punishment from the original sin. Of course there were other punishments but we are only speaking about the human death here.
This death does not. It depends on the. The second death (spiritual death after physical death) is the punishment of sinning without repenting and willing to change. It is also the result of not accepting, according the NT, Christ or god.
People are conceived spiritually dead as well as the physical death already in play ....
Physical death is the physical proof that the spiritual condition exists.
I wasn't asking you to sugarcoat it, twin. I was only asking you to explain in your own words if, when human beings die, it is because they have sinned.
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your fundamental position that people are neutral blank slates prone to do good is against the clear revealed word of God
Actually, I've continually stated that we are prone to sin, so please don't accuse me of saying something completely opposite to that.
I wasn't asking you to sugarcoat it, twin. I was only asking you to explain in your own words if, when human beings die, it is because they have sinned.
Actually, I've continually stated that we are prone to sin, so please don't accuse me of saying something completely opposite to that.
Good..then a 2 day old baby that dies does so because it is a sinner. That is the verdict from the Law from God.
"Sin" automatically makes the person a "sinner" regardless.
You have in the past stated (in a form of a question)
"But how can we be sinners if we haven't sinned at all? I mean what sin -- willful or unwillful -- has a newborn baby committed? Certainly being born is not a sin."
it has nothing about being prone ... sin isn't some choice \ inclination or the wrongful useage of agency. Sin is the condition one finds themself as an enemy of God. We are an enemy of God from the moment of conception and it's the Law from God that requires that every single person (at any age mind you) is damned to hell ... the Mormon's outer darkness.
That is why God revealed that no one will be declared righteous by observing the law.
Good..then a 2 day old baby that dies does so because it is a sinner. That is the verdict from the Law from God.
"Sin" automatically makes the person a "sinner" regardless.
You have in the past stated (in a form of a question)
"But how can we be sinners if we haven't sinned at all? I mean what sin -- willful or unwillful -- has a newborn baby committed? Certainly being born is not a sin."
it has nothing about being prone ... sin isn't some choice \ inclination or the wrongful useage of agency. Sin is the condition one finds themself as an enemy of God. We are an enemy of God from the moment of conception and it's the Law from God that requires that every single person (at any age mind you) is damned to hell ... the Mormon's outer darkness.
That is why God revealed that no one will be declared righteous by observing the law.
Ultimately, technically, yes, we all have to go through the dying process at some point because of the existence of sin which was introduced by Adam.
But the sin doesn't MAKE us die, which is what you made it sound like.
We all know that illness, accidents, natural causes are what MAKE us die. In other words, sin itself doesn't necessarily kill (though sinful people DO kill/murder).
Dying would never have been part of our existence if the world had remained perfect - sinless. Which is what I think you're trying to communicate, right?
Everything I try to write here is based on God's pov not mine.
What arrogance. Your posts reveal a complete ignorance of God's POV.
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Jesus revealed to Paul that "sin" is more than just one's actions, it is a state of fact. There is no such thing as being born sinless. Paul wrote that before the law was ever given...people still died. Therefore humanity is under the curse that was pronounced upon all of the creation.
There is no such curse.
Quote:
No one comes out of the womb sinless... that is why 2 day old babies die, because they are a sinner. "The wages of sin is death"
Sin is an act not a state. This is preposterous on its face.
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I can't suger coat it, your fundamental position that people are neutral blank slates prone to do good is against the clear revealed word of God ... that's if you truly hold the Bible as the benchmark.
That may be the view from Bibleanity . . . but not from Christianity.
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