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People are conceived spiritually dead as well as the physical death already in play ....
Physical death is the physical proof that the spiritual condition exists.
I do not understand your anwer here
My answer to you was that there are two kinds of death and that they don't come at any age. Another words, spiritual death comes after the physical death. The spiritual death is part of the punishment at Judgement if not saved in Christ.
1) spiritual
2) physical
Willfull sin is purposefully done and with full conscience of having done so while knowing it is considered sin in the bible or whatever the person considers god to consider it to be. It's one reason why I don't never did understand why the Catholic Church would bother with absolving or what ever it's call the sins of its members. Confession is only good if you make a conscience effort not to sin again. ie., adultery.
By the other comments that you make "Original sin isn't an actual sin we ever commit so it doesn't have to be forgiven." explains why you do not.
You are very much mistaken about original sin.
Original sin is what makes a person a sinner, and the proof of that is death.
Original sin is the "cancer" that is in everybody... and it is that which makes everybody who is conceived an object of God's wrath.
Don't you remember that it grieved God that he ever created human because of their evilness Genesis 6:6-7 ... well guess what, that include 2 day old babies.
When God reveals that "all sinned", "no one is righteous not even ONE" that doesn't exclude anybody......... even those precious little two day old babies.
That is precisely the main reason why Jesus came to die on the cross... to remove that curse which occured that befalls onto every single person who is conceived since Adam & Eve.
Original sin is why there is death, not immortal and why women must bare children in pain. No one is righteous because of original sin.
However, that does not mean a 2 day old baby or newborn is sinful or has sinned. It only means the baby is born in sin. We are all born in sin and that is not willfull sin. The punishment for this being born in original sin is the physical death and pain etc etc.
to the Bold part. He didn't die to remove the curse or to tremove original sin. If he had died to remove that original sin, old curse as you call it then there wouldn't be any physical death and as you even said yourself physical death is the result of original sin. He died to allow for forgivness which is salvation, according to the bible. He didn't I don't know for sure but I would say babies are automatically forgiven even though they too die because they are not at the age of reason. Babies are not sinful they aren't capable of being sinful anymore than they are capable of asking for forgivness if they did sin.
Last edited by Lolipopbubbles; 11-26-2011 at 02:56 PM..
I am a visual person; after all, I am a man. LOL So, I hope you don’t mind me telling you the truth:
"There is a big difference between kneeling down in love and compassion before a person, while at the same time thinking you are above them."
The sad thing is, people like her REALLY BELIEVE they are doing God's will and work when they condemn others and use the Bible to justify their unloving attitudes toward their fellowman
But the truth is, God's judgement is the only one that matters.
These mere mortals are as flawed as the rest of us, only they don't know it, because they are too busy misinterpreting the Bible to see the real truth, lol.
Original sin is why there is death, not immortal and why women must bare children in pain. No one is righteous because of original sin.
However, that does not mean a 2 day old baby or newborn is sinful or has sinned. It only means the baby is born in sin. We are all born in sin and that is not willfull sin. The punishment for this being born in original sin is the physical death and pain etc etc.
to the Bold part. He didn't die to remove the curse or to tremove original sin. If he had died to remove that original sin, old curse as you call it then there wouldn't be any physical death and as you even said yourself physical death is the result of original sin. He died to allow for forgivness which is salvation, according to the bible. He didn't I don't know for sure but I would say babies are automatically forgiven even though they too die because they are not at the age of reason. Babies are not sinful they aren't capable of being sinful anymore than they are capable of asking for forgivness if they did sin.
Original sin is why there is death, not immortal and why women must bare children in pain. No one is righteous because of original sin.
I don't understand this part... "not immortal and why women must bare children in pain"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopbubbles
However, that does not mean a 2 day old baby or newborn is sinful or has sinned. It only means the baby is born in sin. We are all born in sin and that is not willfull sin. The punishment for this being born in original sin is the physical death and pain etc etc.
To be conceived in sin ( condition of) makes the person a sinner. Just like nuclear radiation, once exposed you're contaminated, age is irrelevent.
Sin contaminated the human race from conception on. All people are "dirty" (nuclear term for being contaminated). Due to that, all people are conceived spiritually dead and accountable for such.
No one is righteous, not even one (due to being conceived sinful)
All our righteous acts are like dirty rages ( that would include the coos of 2 day old)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopbubbles
to the Bold part. He didn't die to remove the curse or to tremove original sin. If he had died to remove that original sin, old curse as you call it then there wouldn't be any physical death and as you even said yourself physical death is the result of original sin.
It's complex to understand that though to the world's view and understanding though what appears as a believer dies physically, Jesus claims no he doesn't:
1 Corinthians 15:55
“Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting? The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law"
John 11:25-26 He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopbubbles
He died to allow for forgivness which is salvation, according to the bible. He didn't I don't know for sure but I would say babies are automatically forgiven even though they too die because they are not at the age of reason. Babies are not sinful they aren't capable of being sinful anymore than they are capable of asking for forgivness if they did sin.
There is no where in the Bible that addresses the topic of babies who die what is there eternal judgement is.
I will only accept your premise of babies not being sinful is the day I see no babies die..... "the wages of sin is death".
Also ( beyond this OP) decision theology is not what scriptures teach. For example, read King David's revelation from Psalms, where there is no indication of his capability of asking for forgiveness for God to be his God.
Psalm 22:10 From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
I am a visual person; after all, I am a man. LOL So, I hope you don’t mind me telling you the truth:
"There is a big difference between kneeling down in love and compassion before a person, while at the same time thinking you are above them."
You say you are going to tell me the truth, and again, you only say another lie Jerwade.
It is you who thinks that I think I am above you and others because I speak God's written truth to you and them. I do not think that I am above anyone.
There is something that I do know and accept and live by though...the truth when I read it. You and others do not.
When I read in scripture that those who are born of God do not continue to willfully sin...because they cannot...because His seed is within them, I believe that. I live by that because as a child of God, if He says it, I know I can achieve it, by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
You and the others I warn do not.
When I read in scripture that if you are born again, and follow His commands, you are His child...I believe that. I live by that because as a child of God, if He says it, I know I can achieve it by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
You and the others I warn in love do not.
When I read in scripture that if you do still willfully commit sin, that you are not a child of God but a child of the devil...I believe that. I live by that as being an honest warning from an honest God, who means exactly what He says.
You and the others that I warn in love do not.
When I read in scripture that if you are a willfull snner, not only do you not know God, but have not ever seen Him, and nor does He know you. I believe that. I live by that as being another honest warning from an honest God, who means exactly what He says.
You and the others that I warn in love do not.
You and the others do not recognize true love nor true compassion when it stares you in the face on a computer screen.
The sad thing is, people like her REALLY BELIEVE they are doing God's will and work when they condemn others and use the Bible to justify their unloving attitudes toward their fellowman
If you feel condemned lovesMountains, it is the word of the Living God that condemns your heart, that is a good thing...but it is not me. I'm only the messenger.
...and I don't believe that I have been unloving at all in my attitude. You just feel that way because it isn't what you want to hear...it doesn't make you feel good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains
But the truth is, God's judgement is the only one that matters.
Yes, you're right. But if you reject His word, what will His judgement be upon you...?...is the question. I'd think seriously about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains
These mere mortals are as flawed as the rest of us, only they don't know it, because they are too busy misinterpreting the Bible to see the real truth, lol.
Please lovesMountains, show me what part of scripture that I have misinterpreted.
There are posters on here who claim they don't practice willful sin. I never understood the difference but in reading a couple posts here I think I finally understand.
The bible says anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar. But to claim to be a sinner but never to willfully sin is truthful. (At least in the minds of those who claim this... ) So it really has nothing to do with any sinful act itself, but rather its about not being a liar but saying you are sinless in a way to admit sin and deny it at the same time.
Kinda deceptive IMO.
Did I get it right?
If anyone was to say they are without sin - it is a lie because we all have the sin of Adam our forefather of which the First Judgement was proclaimed and thus we all must toil and die. A baby cannot die unless it has sinned. The fact that babies have died (having not knowledge of the law or even application) shows that the babies died with their sin. That sin is the sin of Adam for which we all have. This is why Jesus had to be born of a different seed (from a virgin), otherwise, the redeemer would have been born under Adam's seed of the same curse. The second Adam cannot be a part of the first Adam.
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