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I'm no Biblical Historian and not Catholic, either and I sincerely have believed that they were the first, official church. They have some amazing history to back it up. I thought....
Everybody seems to forget about the eastern orthodox church based in Constantanople...Which had split off feom the western church...They have their own Pope...So, why not go after them too?...
Obviously, this is something not all Christians can agree upon. Here's my perspective...
In Ephesians 4:11-14, Paul states:
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive..."
In other words, prophets and apostles were an essential part of the Church Jesus Christ established. They were its foundation. It wasn't just the words of the Apostles that would be needed until the Savior's return. It was individuals who held the same authority as the original twelve did and who functioned as they functioned in directing the affairs of the Church. Paul states that without this organizational structure, Christ’s followers would be like children, persuaded first one way and then another, and unable to distinguish between true and false doctrines, being subject to the teachings of those who were crafty and who desired to deceive them. He also pointed out that this organizational structure was to remain in place until we all became united in our faith and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Do you really think we're there yet? It was precisely because the Apostles were all killed and that the leadership they provided ceased to exist. Look what the result is: 30,000+ different denominations of Christianity. Just imagine how different things might have been today if there had been twelve Apostles leading Christ’s Church from the very beginning.We could look to them to for guidance and direction, knowing that they were called by the real Head of the Church to lead it in His physical absence.
I think the Coptic Christian Church could probably give Roman Catholicism a run for its money. While it is true that the Catholic Church is at least one of the oldest Christian Churches in the world, if it doesn't date all the way back to Jesus Christ, its age is a moot point. Granted, Catholics will tell you it does. The rest of us disagree. I don't know how much of this thread you've read, but you might find this post interesting. I believe that Catholicism developed right along side the dozens of other Christian groups that were so prevalent in the days immediately following the deaths of the Apostles. It may not have gone by that name at first, and it very likely changed quite a bit during its first several centuries. Eventually, it was what we might call "the victor" in the fight for supremacy, but that in and of itself proves nothing.
Well, historicaly, the christian weren't even christians, they were known as 'Followers of the Way' at first...
Everybody seems to forget about the eastern orthodox church based in Constantanople...Which had split off feom the western church...They have their own Pope...So, why not go after them too?...
Yea, I like that. Go after the eastern orthodox.
After all, this papist believes in equal opportunity condemnation.
Christ established HIS Church around ad33. Local assemblies began from that point on and continue to this day.
The catholic church did not start untill 325ad when constantine, a roman leader led members of Christ's Church astray and he appointed himself Pope and set up his organization.
I have studied early chuch history and the Council of Nicea.....that is why I ask: where is the evidence for this?
I do love reading re-visionist history...as entertainment!!! Heck, there are some who even claim that Simon Magus was the "real" first pope, since Peter "was never in Rome" anyways, and they write a whole new history around that claim, ignoring the archaeological and documentary evidence and the fact that the beliefs of Simon Magus and his followers have nothing in common with Catholic doctrine...do you know, some even claim that Islam was really a Catholic invention that went astray and betrayed the Pope? Its true!!! These people will make up anything, anything to discredit the Catholic Church!! Why not just preach about your own beliefs and try to get converts that way?...if your beliefs are true, then you should succeed despite the Catholic Church...why this fixation and obsession with pointing out the "wrongs" of the Catholic Church? Don't you remember:
Quote:
Matthew 7:Judging Others:
Quote:
1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
And is this merely a deflection? Are these people merely trying to compensate for their own shortcomings? I wonder....
The so-called early Xstians behaved more like Jews.
Formal Christianity was established by the Catholic church.
They behaved more like what today we would call a Messianci Jew...Again, catholic merely means 'universal'...Not in the UR sense of the word tho, but as a collective body of believers...I would say that the JWs are a very catholic organization considering that anywhere in the world they are they are studying the exact same thing regarding the Bible...If a congregation is studying Romans chapter one in Seattle, WA...the congregation in Delhi, India is studying the exact same thing...
After all, this papist believes in equal opportunity condemnation.
Let's spread the load.
Hey, I'm just sayin'...I forget what caused the split, but, they are essentially the same in belief...But I do not hear anyone condemning them...How do we know Revelations is not speaking about them?...And not the church of Rome?...
I have studied early chuch history and the Council of Nicea.....that is why I ask: where is the evidence for this?
I do love reading re-visionist history...as entertainment!!! Heck, there are some who even claim that Simon Magus was the "real" first pope, since Peter "was never in Rome" anyways, and they write a whole new history around that claim, ignoring the archaeological and documentary evidence and the fact that the beliefs of Simon Magus and his followers have nothing in common with Catholic doctrine...do you know, some even claim that Islam was really a Catholic invention that went astray and betrayed the Pope? Its true!!! These people will make up anything, anything to discredit the Catholic Church!! Why not just preach about your own beliefs and try to get converts that way?...if your beliefs are true, then you should succeed despite the Catholic Church...why this fixation and obsession with pointing out the "wrongs" of the Catholic Church? Don't you remember:
And is this merely a deflection? Are these people merely trying to compensate for their own shortcomings? I wonder....
Yea, I read that a long time ago in one of those Jack Chic comic tracts...The wife of Muhammad was a Catholic Nun and was commissioned by the Pope to seek him out and endere herself to him and marry him and then 'guide' him to be a prophet in order for the Pope to swell the ranks of the Church...However, it went south on her and he ended up creating a new religion...I think her name was Kadeera or Kadeema or something...Can't remember exactly...
The issue is that Protestants do not want to accept they grew off the Catholic church and that they came to the party 1500 years later.
They also refuse to accept that The Catholic Church is probably the most important institution in Western civilization. Without the appearance of the Catholic church Western Civilization history would be very different.
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