The greatest deceit…you must choose to believe in Christ (Creator, faith)
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James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
This is the WORD of God: he is speaking/commanding it…it is prophecy.
Are you able to submit yourself to God if he has not changed your heart? Submitting means to bow down to God as Lord and to obey every ordinance, statue, law, judgment etc. No one can do that with a stony stubborn heart.
Now read this:
Isaiah 45:23
I have sworn by myself, the WORD is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Isaiah 55:11
So shall my WORD be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
So...the word has gone forth out of his mouth in righteousness...submit yourself to God....resist the devil...he will flee from you. Will this happen?
Sure it will...if God said his word will not return void but will accomplish that which he please and shall prosper in the thing (us) whereto he sent it, then we will submit ourselves to God, resist the devil and when we do, he will flee from us.
This only happens when he changes our hearts.
Cimaroon ... I don't think you believe that you, in no way and at no time, submit yourself to God's truth or that you never resist the lies of the false accuser/devil, right? I'm not sure why you are making this an all or nothing proposition when it is pretty clear from experience (and the biblical authors reflect this in their writings) that in this life we are making a constant choice about what we are allowing to rule us, about whether or not we will walk in the spirit of God/love.
I remember reading that if you are lost in a forest you should pick an object in the distance to focus on to travel towards. If you take your eyes off of that object, you risk endlessly wandering in circles. I believe, in this life, the object we are to focus on is Christ/God/Love in us. Focusing on ourselves as a beast will only leave us wandering aimlessly.
Cimaroon ... I don't think you believe that you, in no way and at no time, submit yourself to God's truth or that you never resist the lies of the false accuser/devil, right? I'm not sure why you are making this an all or nothing proposition when it is pretty clear from experience (and the biblical authors reflect this in their writings) that in this life we are making a constant choice about what we are allowing to rule us, about whether or not we will walk in the spirit of God/love.
With God it is all or nothing....he requires perfection. Not perfection sometimes, but all the time.
I do not believe that I make my own choices. I believe that God has already authored my entire life from beginning to end. I believe we are animals by instinct; creatures of the flesh and if it were not for the distribution of God's spiritual gifts as a foretaste of glory, the works of our flesh would make us consume each other. Our human nature does not submit to God, nor does it resist the devil. It is God's spirit within us that does this.
Galatians 5:17-23
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Just look at the works of the flesh and then look at the works of God's spirit. Who do you think is submissive and resisting the devil? Our flesh or is it His spirit?
Only God's spirit does the things of God, this is why the scriptures say it is God working in you, giving you the will and desire to do what pleases him. His spirit is what does the good works in you. Your flesh is what does evil. So stop trying to take credit for the good you do...it wasn't you but His spirit working in you. All credit goes to God. This is why when he raises us up again without the flesh, but instead completely born of his spirit, full measure, not just a foretaste, we will always do every good work. Always!
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
I'll say it again...it is God who does the good work in you...not you!
I'll say it again...it is God who does the good work in you...not you!
I completely agree. As I said:
I believe, in this life, the object we are to focus on is Christ/God/Love in us. Focusing on ourselves as a beast will only leave us wandering aimlessly.
I believe, in this life, the object we are to focus on is Christ/God/Love in us. Focusing on ourselves as a beast will only leave us wandering aimlessly.
We look towards him for the hope. He is the evidence of what we hope to become. We are the beast. There is a big difference between who we are and who He is. We are not the same, and for those who can't see that difference, they will take credit for the good things they see themselves doing, while condemning others for the bad things they do, not realizing that we are all evil and the chiefest of all sinners. And so instead of giving glory and thanksgiving to God we instead glorify, honor and puff ourselves up, claiming that we are the image of God. This is false...God has no evil in him.
We look towards him for the hope. He is the evidence of what we hope to become. We are the beast. There is a big difference between who we are and who He is. We are not the same, and for those who can't see that difference, they will take credit for the good things they see themselves doing, while condemning others for the bad things they do, not realizing that we are all evil and the chiefest of all sinners. And so instead of giving glory and thanksgiving to God we instead glorify, honor and puff ourselves up, claiming that we are the image of God. This is false...God has no evil in him.
So the fact that I agree with you that it is God who does the good work in us fits in with your accusations*** of me how?
And how does your belief that, "God has already authored my entire life from beginning to end" and that you have no choice, fit with your belief that God has no evil in him? If it is true that God is perfect and has no evil in him (and I agree it is true) then how is that he has "authored" evil?
As I see it God is perfect and God is reality. Our choice, then, is to accept this perfection as reality, or to be deluded by the illusion of our evil/beast nature.
***ETA: "Accusation" is a strong word and not precisely what I meant. I understand that you are simply stating what you believe to be the outcome of not accepting that we are "beasts"...
"Presumptions about the outcome of my understanding" is perhaps a better way of saying it. Sorry if my original wording sounded antagonistic.
So the fact that I agree with you that it is God who does the good work in us fits in with your accusations*** of me how?
And how does your belief that, "God has already authored my entire life from beginning to end" and that you have no choice, fit with your belief that God has no evil in him? If it is true that God is perfect and has no evil in him (and I agree it is true) then how is that he has "authored" evil?
As I see it God is perfect and God is reality. Our choice, then, is to accept this perfection as reality, or to be deluded by the illusion of our evil/beast nature.
***ETA: "Accusation" is a strong word and not precisely what I meant. I understand that you are simply stating what you believe to be the outcome of not accepting that we are "beasts".
I was not accusing you of anything. Many times we find it hard to separate the two natures within us and being able to understand who is doing what. Thus many times we end up taking credit for God's good work. We are all guilty of this. I know I am. Just listen to fundamentalist Christians who think they are created in God's image, they chose to believe and so every one else who does not believe, they condemn to eternal separation from God in the most brutal way of being burned continuously in the fire. They don't realize that they do nothing but evil and it was the spirit of God which put the faith in them to believe...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
And how does your belief that, "God has already authored my entire life from beginning to end" and that you have no choice, fit with your belief that God has no evil in him? If it is true that God is perfect and has no evil in him (and I agree it is true) then how is that he has "authored" evil?
As I see it God is perfect and God is reality. Our choice, then, is to accept this perfection as reality, or to be deluded by the illusion of our evil/beast nature.
God is the author of everything...good and evil. Nothing was created unless it was created by him.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
...but not because he is the author of evil does it mean he has evil within him. God created man, he created the heart of man and look at what lies within it:
evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Is God foolish, Is he deceitful, does he steal? No, none of these things exist within him.
Within God is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance:etc. This is his nature.
I was not accusing you of anything. Many times we find it hard to separate the two natures within us and being able to understand who is doing what. Thus many times we end up taking credit for God's good work. We are all guilty of this. I know I am. Just listen to fundamentalist Christians who think they are created in God's image, they chose to believe and so every one else who does not believe, they condemn to eternal separation from God in the most brutal way of being burned continuously in the fire. They don't realize that they do nothing but evil and it was the spirit of God which put the faith in them to believe...
I find it much less difficult with my current understanding. The point is that you said that those who do not accept that they are beasts "will take credit for the good things they see themselves doing, while condemning others for the bad things they do" and "so instead of giving glory and thanksgiving to God we instead glorify, honor and puff ourselves up". Yet I have said that I wholly agree that God is doing the good work in us and in previous posts we have discussed the fact that I see no reason to condemn others. So, do you see that your conclusions about the outcome of not believing myself to be a beast, are incorrect?
Quote:
God is the author of everything...good and evil. Nothing was created unless it was created by him.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
...but not because he is the author of evil does it mean he has evil within him. God created man, he created the heart of man and look at what lies within it:
evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Is God foolish, Is he deceitful, does he steal? No, none of these things exist within him.
Within God is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance:etc. This is his nature.
An author is defined as "the person who originated or gave existence to anything". If, as you say:
Quote:
I do not believe that I make my own choices. I believe that God has already authored my entire life from beginning to end.
then you are saying that anything evil you have done originated with God and God gave evil it's existence. That would make God less than perfect.
The truth, aisi, is that WE give evil it's existence when we are believing/accepting it as our reality rather than believing/accepting God in us as our reality.
I asked you: If you see yourself the image of Christ, then what do you hope for?
This is what you said:
So what you are saying is you hope the image you are imagining yourself to be becomes a reality. So then you are admitting that in reality you are not the image of Christ.
What you are failing to understand is, you CANNOT hope for something you already have.
If you are the image then that's the reality
If you are not the image then you can hope to become it.
No I know I am that which I hope in.
We are that which we hope in. God called Abram Abraham(father of many nations)before Abram was Abraham(father of many nations). Abram believed he was Abraham( father of many nations)before it was a physical reality.
I have mentioned this a few times and yet you are either ignoring it or do not understand it.
I find it much less difficult with my current understanding. The point is that you said that those who do not accept that they are beasts "will take credit for the good things they see themselves doing, while condemning others for the bad things they do" and "so instead of giving glory and thanksgiving to God we instead glorify, honor and puff ourselves up". Yet I have said that I wholly agree that God is doing the good work in us and in previous posts we have discussed the fact that I see no reason to condemn others. So, do you see that your conclusions about the outcome of not believing myself to be a beast, are incorrect?
Am I really incorrect....You say on one hand that it is God who is doing the work in you and then you say on the other hand that you are the one making choices about what rules you. You choose whether you will walk in the spirit of God/love or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
in this life we are making a constant choice about what we are allowing to rule us, about whether or not we will walk in the spirit of God/love.
It wasn't ever your choice. God fashioned you in iniquity. Your nature is hostile to his. It will always do evil. If you walk in love it was God's spirit that made you do it. You did not choose it.
I have come to realize that every time I think an evil thought or speak something I know not to be true, or lose patience with my children, or I am upset with a friend....this is my nature; the flesh. These are the moments that I am grateful....grateful for his sacrifice and mercy. When I am kind, or giving, or understanding, or full of faith, I recognize it isn't me, but the attributes of God's spirit working those things in me and in those moments I am thankful and full of praise. So you see, me seeing the works of the beast doesn't make me want to be more like the beast, instead it makes me grateful and appreciative....and that's a good thing. God used my evil and turned it for good
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As I said:
Sorry if my original wording sounded antagonistic.
