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I asked you what were we first when we were created and what did we become?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
We were very much part of God
Alienated in our minds
Now it just seems as though you are using human reasoning to explain your religious beliefs ...the scriptures clearly state first came the natural earthy fleshy man and then afterwards comes the spiritual man...the spiritual man does not come first and just as we have be born of the earth we will one day be born of God (the spirit). 1 Corinthians 15
Do you know why we would be alienated in our minds?
For with the heart man believeth.......so if your heart is evil then you have no understanding of God. This is why God has promised to cut out that stony heart and give you a new heart(Ezekiel 36:26) but it will not be removed until you die(Isaiah 22:14).
No He doesn't. It comes from a heart that is not guarded in what it looks upon, dwells upon and desires
Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life. Proverbs 4:23
My son, pay attention to what I say; listen closely to my words.
Do not let them out of your sight keep them within your heart; Proverbs 4:20-21
How can a young man keep his way( the issues of life)pure? By living according to your word. Psalm 119:9
How do we live according to the word ? By continually looking at what we are hearing(Proverbs 4:21)until its so impressed on our heart we cannot but live according to what we looking at. A renewed mind results in a changed heart.
Really? Then grace does not come from God either. We are responsible for our own salvation? Mike, you continue to contradict yourself with your flawed view of salvation.
Really? Then grace does not come from God either. We are responsible for our own salvation? Mike, you continue to contradict yourself with your flawed view of salvation.
Mike gets his G.O.D (aka: "grace on delivery") through Angels-R-Us.
I asked you what were we first when we were created and what did we become?
Now it just seems as though you are using human reasoning to explain your religious beliefs ...the scriptures clearly state first came the natural earthy fleshy man and then afterwards comes the spiritual man...the spiritual man does not come first and just as we have be born of the earth we will one day be born of God (the spirit). 1 Corinthians 15.
Cimaroon, I wanted to go back to this post for a moment and very briefly explain how I understand this now. I realize you may not understand it or agree, and that's fine. I just wanted to share it with you.
You reference 1 cor 15:45-46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit. Howbeit that not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
I believe that in OUR awareness, this ^^^ is exactly how it is. We are first consciously aware of our earthy/flesh/natural existence and only later do we become conscious of the spiritual/quickening spirit (Christ) within our earthen vessels.
But the greater reality which underlies this, I believe, is found in the words spoken by God: "I am the first and the last."
Humanity is just the dirt that the Seed/spirit of God, which has always been there, was planted in. The Spirit/Seed/Christ grows (is being resurrected) beneath the surface of our conscious awareness until it breaks through to our awareness at the right time.
That which has always been, though we were not aware of it, is what we become.
____ (What do you think, pcamps. Does that mesh with your own thoughts on this?)
Really? Then grace does not come from God either. We are responsible for our own salvation? Mike, you continue to contradict yourself with your flawed view of salvation.
Readers, I made it clear that post #77 was my last post on this thread. I also showed in post #47 that Ephesians 2:8 is not referring to faith as being a gift from God. You can go back and read my posts, or not.
Since faith is non-meritorious you can take no credit for believing on Christ which means that you do nothing to earn your salvation, but only trust in what Christ has already done on your behalf and thereby receive the free gift of salvation. Faith in a salvific sense does not come from God. If it did, then that would mean that God purposely withholds faith from certain people so that they will not be saved.
Well what were those doing building the Tower of Babel, they were creating that which they imagined.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Gen11:6
No blasphemy whatsoever, scripture clear teaches that there is power in our words,
Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit. Fruit comes from a seed(word). We create our world by our imagination(imagination is the beginning of creation)then speak it in to being, whether it be good or bad, unfortunately we forget what we have thought upon and spoken and blame everyone and everything including God instead of ourselves.
From the fruit of his lips a man enjoys good things.He who guards his lips guards his life, but he who speaks rashly will come to ruin. Proverbs 13:2-3
James 3:2
If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
If you cause no offense by your mouth...only then are you perfect....and you can control your whole body;every part of it, including you mind.
James 3:5-6
Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
The tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. The tongue is a world of iniquity. The tongue defileth the whole body.
James 3:8
the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
No man can tame his tongue. Not you, not me, not anyone. So none of us can control our body either, because if we could control the tongue, then we could control our body. Our mind is also a part of our body, which means we cannot control our minds either. This goes right back to the fact that no one can choose to do good.
Death and life are in the power of the tongue, but it goes right back to the heart of man. Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
So your mouth speaks based on your heart...if your heart is evil...your mouth will speak evil....we cannot control it.
If our tongue is a world of iniquity...when will it be removed?
Isaiah 22:14
And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
So our tongue speaks based on our heart. Our heart needs to be removed and changed. God himself has promised to change it. This is why we need to just wait upon him for he is faithful to his promise.
Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
When does this happen again? According to what God says, it happens when we die!! "this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts".
Matthew 9:17
Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
God will not put a new heart and spirit in these old dying bodies. He will put it in our new glorified bodies. Then our tongue will cause no offense and we will be perfect, able to control our whole body including our mind/thoughts/imaginations. As you can see we are not in control and neither were the people of Babel.
Cimaroon, I wanted to go back to this post for a moment and very briefly explain how I understand this now. I realize you may not understand it or agree, and that's fine. I just wanted to share it with you.
You reference 1 cor 15:45-46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit. Howbeit that not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
I believe that in OUR awareness, this ^^^ is exactly how it is. We are first consciously aware of our earthy/flesh/natural existence and only later do we become conscious of the spiritual/quickening spirit (Christ) within our earthen vessels.
But the greater reality which underlies this, I believe, is found in the words spoken by God: "I am the first and the last."
Humanity is just the dirt that the Seed/spirit of God, which has always been there, was planted in. The Spirit/Seed/Christ grows (is being resurrected) beneath the surface of our conscious awareness until it breaks through to our awareness at the right time.
That which has always been, though we were not aware of it, is what we become.
____ (What do you think, pcamps. Does that mesh with your own thoughts on this?)
This is very interesting, Pleroo. A good thing to think on.
thanks!
I asked you:
So are you saying God does not create evil?
And you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
No He doesn't. It comes from a heart that is not guarded in what it looks upon, dwells upon and desires
God said He created evil.
Isaiah 45:7 I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
You said He does not.
Paul said:
Romans 3:4
Let God be true, but every man a liar
So I will believe God....He said he created evil, I will believe him.
You then said the evil comes from a heart that is not guarded...Who created the heart? Who knitted you together in your mother's womb. Who formed your inward parts? Was it not God?
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