Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Obviously, this question is directed at those who claim to be believers in Jesus Christ, but who deny that He is God.
Jesus Christ is both God and man. The Word became man. John 1:1-3 compared with John 1:14 and Phil. 2:5-8. He did not cease to be God when He became man. Revelation 19:13 [Speaking of Jesus Christ who is about to return from heaven at the end of the Tribulation] 'He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.' Jesus Christ IS the Word of God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2] He was in the beginning with God. 3] All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 14] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Col. 1:16 For by [in] Him [Jesus Christ who preexisted as God] all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through [dia - Jesus Christ is the agent of creation; He did the actual act of creation] Him and for Him. 17] He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Phil 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6] who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7] but emptied Himself [not of His deity, but of the independent use of His deity apart from the Father's plan for the incarnation. Satan tempted Jesus to use His deity independently of the Father's plan which called for Him to rely on the Holy Spirit, to turn stones into bread as stated in Matthew 4:3-4. There were occasions however when Jesus legitimately used His own deity during the First Advent], taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8] Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Now, here is the question, or three questions in one. Based ONLY on the verses given above, please please give a direct answer, rather than an evasive answer. Please do not bring in other verses which you think refute these verses I am asking you to base your answer on.
*** Did Jesus Christ preexist as God and did He create all that has been created, and is Jesus Christ holding all things together? YES or NO!!! ***
If you say 'YES', and yet deny that Jesus Christ is God, then you are saying that someone other than God created the universe. See Genesis 1:1.
If you say 'NO', then you deny what is revealed in John 1:1-3,Col. 1:16-17 and Phil. 2:5-8.
Mike I disagree with your premise entirely. Jesus did not preexist as ‘God’ and he did not create all that has been created. So my answer is no. Interpretation of John 1:1-3, Col. 1:16-17 and Phil. 2:5-8 is varied. Therefore you should not assume that we already accept your reading of these verses.
Last edited by kids in america_; 11-16-2012 at 12:16 PM..
Jesus Christ is both, Spirit and Man; having to natures.
Of course, we all know which one predominated from the beginning.
"This is my Son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him."
Jesus had to come to understand that He was the Son of God. He had the Spirit of God but had to become aware of this through His experiences, learnings, upbringing, etc..
Mike I disagree with your premise entirely. Jesus did not preexist as ‘God’ and he did not create all that has been created. So my answer is no. Interpretation of John 1:1-3, Col. 1:16-17 and Phil. 2:5-8 is varied. Therefore you should not assume that we already accept your reading of these verses.
Please give me some verses that support this claim.
Rev. 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
