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Quite to the contrary. The purpose of the gospel of John was to emphasize Jesus' deity.
John’s Gospel uses exalted language emphasizing Jesus’ “deity” and yet clearly enough, this does not mean John understood Jesus as equal to ‘God’ in the Trinitarian sense. Mike you fail to realize that such language can be applied to a person without making them ‘God’ himself in person. In the first century world and it was against the background of that world that the gospel of John was written. The 1st century mind was quite used to men being called a deity, ‘god’, or ‘Divine’. However, there was no understanding that these 'divine' languages made these men to be ‘God’ Himself in person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Further, the Jews who did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah sought to stone Jesus because they understood that He was claiming to be God.
John 5:18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
Mike Jesus calls ‘God’ His Father, (v. 19) the terms Father and Son implies a relationship. Jn. 5:18 does not prove Jesus’ equality with God, the context disproves it. Jesus did not agree with the Pharisees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
John 10:33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
The Jews understood that Jesus was claiming to be God and for that reason sought to kill Him.
Mike Jesus didn't claim to be 'God'. Jesus corrects them in v.36 “… I said, 'I am God's Son'?”
Ok then mike... Please read john chapter 17...
And do so with a clear head , no doctrine, in other words like an 8 year old child. And tell me what it says.
I have already shown on this thread that in His high priestly prayer, Jesus prayed to be glorified with the Father with the glory that He had had with Him before the world began. That means in eternity past.
Your apparent adversion to doctrine does not speak well for you.
The Bible says that Jesus is God.
God the Father says that Jesus is God.
Jesus used the self designation 'I am' with reference to His own deity.
The disciples said that Jesus is God.
The Jews understood that Jesus claimed that He was God and tried to stone Him because of it.
From the beginning, the Church understood that Jesus is God.
The Bible ascribes to Jesus, all of the characteristics of God.
Now, if you can't understand from all that, that Jesus Christ is God, just as the Holy Spririt is God, and the Father is God, then I don't know what else to tell you.
I have already shown on this thread that in His high priestly prayer, Jesus prayed to be glorified with the Father with the glory that He had had with Him before the world began. That means in eternity past.
Your apparent adversion to doctrine does not speak well for you.
The Bible says that Jesus is God.
God the Father says that Jesus is God.
Jesus used the self designation 'I am' with reference to His own deity.
The disciples said that Jesus is God.
The Jews understood that Jesus claimed that He was God and tried to stone Him because of it.
From the beginning, the Church understood that Jesus is God.
The Bible ascribes to Jesus, all of the characteristics of God.
Now, if you can't understand from all that, that Jesus Christ is God, just as the Holy Spririt is God, and the Father is God, then I don't know what else to tell you.
I agree Jesus prayed to be glorified with the father....So was he praying ?
When i pray i talk to som1...
Or was he speaking to the air?
You are trying to tell me he was talking to himself.
As for my doctrine....
The bible does never once indicate that Jesus is God, And countless times indicates that he is Gods son.
I am not the one taking countless verses and reading them backwards to try and prove my point, while ignoring even more that state the direct oposite..
John’s Gospel uses exalted language emphasizing Jesus’ “deity” and yet clearly enough, this does not mean John understood Jesus as equal to ‘God’ in the Trinitarian sense. Mike you fail to realize that such language can be applied to a person without making them ‘God’ himself in person. In the first century world and it was against the background of that world that the gospel of John was written. The 1st century mind was quite used to men being called a deity, ‘god’, or ‘Divine’. However, there was no understanding that these 'divine' languages made these men to be ‘God’ Himself in person.
Mike Jesus calls ‘God’ His Father, (v. 19) the terms Father and Son implies a relationship. Jn. 5:18 does not prove Jesus’ equality with God, the context disproves it. Jesus did not agree with the Pharisees.
Mike Jesus didn't claim to be 'God'. Jesus corrects them in v.36 “… I said, 'I am God's Son'?”
No, Jesus did not correct them on it just as He did not correct Thomas when he called Jesus,' My Lord and my God' (John 20:28). Thomas' statement was a recognition of Jesus as God manifest in the flesh. And I have already shown on earlier posts that Jesus used the self designation 'I am' with reference to His deity. Jesus Christ's title 'The Son of God' is unique in that it refers to His deity. No one else is a son of God in the same way that Jesus Christ is the unique Son of God.
Obviously men in authority were sometimes referred to as 'god's. That is not the sense in which Jesus Christ is referred to.
You fail to understand the clear meaning of Scripture. You also refuse to acknowledge that it is God who created all that has come into being, and that apart from Jesus Christ, nothing has come into being all which has come into being as clearly stated in John 1:3.
And I have gone over the hypostatic union of Jesus Christ with you on another thread, and you just cannot, or refuse to understand that Jesus Christ is both God and man.
The bible is not a crossword puzzle... A child can understand it ...
Dont try to convince any1 by linking verses from opposite ends of the bible to reveal some deep dark secret.
I agree Jesus prayed to be glorified with the father....So was he praying ?
When i pray i talk to som1...
Or was he speaking to the air?
You are trying to tell me he was talking to himself.
No. I am telling you that the humanity of Jesus Christ was praying to the Father. If you had bothered to go into the study of the hypostatic union which I provided, you would have at least become acquainted with the doctrines of the hypostatic union and Kenosis.
Jesus Christ is both God and man in one Person. During the First Advent, Jesus refrained from the independent use of His deity apart from the Father's plan for Christ during the First Advent.
No. I am telling you that the humanity of Jesus Christ was praying to the Father. If you had bothered to go into the study of the hypostatic union which I provided, you would have at least become acquainted with the doctrines of the hypostatic union and Kenosis.
Jesus Christ is both God and man in one Person. During the First Advent, Jesus refrained from the independent use of His deity apart from the Father's plan for Christ during the First Advent.
Ok look .
I dont know how many will agree with me
but this is what i believe...
The bible will damn more people than it saves.
It is a dead letter , if you dont have the spirit to give it life , you will decieve yourself with it...
I will never read what another man has written as an interpetation.
Jesus " Gods Son" promissed to send me the comforter who will guide me into all truth..
The bible is not a crossword puzzle... A child can understand it ...
Dont try to convince any1 by linking verses from opposite ends of the bible to reveal some deep dark secret.
And yet you do not understand the clear Scriptural statements that say that Jesus Christ is God.
And all pertinent Scripture regarding any doctrine is to be used. Scripture must be compared with Scripture.
The Bible contains some very difficult doctrines to understand as Peter said when referring to some of Paul's epistles (2 Peter 3:15-16).
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