Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ok look .
I dont know how many will agree with me
but this is what i believe...
The bible will damn more people than it saves.
It is a dead letter , if you dont have the spirit to give it life , you will decieve yourself with it...
I will never read what another man has written as an interpetation.
Jesus " Gods Son" promissed to send me the comforter who will guide me into all truth..
He did not send me the Hypostatic Union.
God provided the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher to guide the believer to spiritual maturity (Eph. 4:11-16). God intended that the believer place himself under the teaching authority of a pastor/teacher.
Your statement that you will never read what another man has written, means that you will never advance spiritually. You will, and have gone into doctrinal error. You have deceived yourself. With that attitude there is no point in continuing any conversation with you.
God provided the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher to guide the believer to spiritual maturity (Eph. 4:11-16). God intended that the believer place himself under the teaching authority of a pastor/teacher.
Your statement that you will never read what another man has written, means that you will never advance spiritually. You will, and have gone into doctrinal error. You have deceived yourself. With that attitude there is no point in continuing any conversation with you.
LOL..
And you are this paster who will hear God for me...
You are blind trying to lead..
Obviously, this question is directed at those who claim to be believers in Jesus Christ, but who deny that He is God.
Now, here is the question, or three questions in one. Based ONLY on the verses given above, please please give a direct answer, rather than an evasive answer. Please do not bring in other verses which you think refute these verses I am asking you to base your answer on.
*** Did Jesus Christ preexist as God and did He create all that has been created, and is Jesus Christ holding all things together? YES or NO!!! ***
If you say 'YES', and yet deny that Jesus Christ is God, then you are saying that someone other than God created the universe. See Genesis 1:1.
If you say 'NO', then you deny what is revealed in John 1:1-3,Col. 1:16-17 and Phil. 2:5-8.
RESPONSE:
Hardly.
Col 15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRST BORN over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together
1. Jesus was the first born of God (ie. was born first)
2. He, not God the Father, created all things.
3. So obviously he existed before the present creation. But that doesn't make him eternal, just the first born of creation.
In short, he is the Demiurge of Greek philosophers, the artisan. Philo of Alexandria later adopted the term Logos. Keep in mind, Paul was a Hellanistic (Greek) Jew.
The beginning of the Gospel of John contains the same information.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 11-18-2012 at 06:08 PM..
Reason: addition
Ok look .
I dont know how many will agree with me
but this is what i believe...
The bible will damn more people than it saves.
It is a dead letter , if you dont have the spirit to give it life , you will decieve yourself with it...
I will never read what another man has written as an interpetation.
Jesus " Gods Son" promissed to send me the comforter who will guide me into all truth..
He did not send me the Hypostatic Union.
Bravo, clickinmx! You are listening to the Comforter already in your innermost mind. We can test ANY "precepts and doctrines of men" using the "mind of Christ" (WWJT) whenever we are confronted with the complex creations of would-be mentors of God. It is simple . . . follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. We have no need of hypostatic, hypnotic, hydrostatic, hydromatic or kenotic ANYTHING.
Bravo, clickinmx! You are listening to the Comforter already in your innermost mind. We can test ANY "precepts and doctrines of men" using the "mind of Christ" (WWJT) whenever we are confronted with the complex creations of would-be mentors of God. It is simple . . . follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. We have no need of hypostatic, hypnotic, hydrostatic, hydromatic or kenotic ANYTHING.
Please forgive me ...
Are you being sarcastic or are you serious?
mike i looked up one random verse . It was john 8:24.
It does not say( if you believe that i am) , It says says (if you believe that i am he....)
KJV
Do you twist all your verses as you do this one?
No, it does not. The word 'He' is not found in the original in John 8:24. You will note that the word 'He' when included in an English translation is italicized, or should be as it is in the NASB for instance. That means that it was added in the English but does not appear in the original.
Here. Look at it in the Greek. >> John 8:24 Biblos Interlinear Bible You will note that in the English translation right under the Greek word 'eimi' [I am,] the word 'he' is in brackets.
Bravo, clickinmx! You are listening to the Comforter already in your innermost mind. We can test ANY "precepts and doctrines of men" using the "mind of Christ" (WWJT) whenever we are confronted with the complex creations of would-be mentors of God. It is simple . . . follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. We have no need of hypostatic, hypnotic, hydrostatic, hydromatic or kenotic ANYTHING.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clickinmx
Please forgive me ...
Are you being sarcastic or are you serious?
Both. I am pleased that you have not been confounded by the complex jargon in the "precepts and doctrines of men" being presented to you as truth. The bold is my way of emphasizing the silliness of such complex jargon.
Col 15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRST BORN over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together
1. Jesus was the first born of God (ie. was born first)
2. He, not God the Father, created all things.
3. So obviously he existed before the present creation. But that doesn't make him eternal, just the first born of creation.
In short, he is the Demiurge of Greek philosophers, the artisan. Philo of Alexandria later adopted the term Logos. Keep in mind, Paul was a Hellanistic (Greek) Jew.
The beginning of the Gospel of John contains the same information.
I have always said that Jesus Christ was the agent of creation. John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him (the Word; the preeexistant Jesus Christ) nothing came into being that has come into being.
The phrase 'the first born' refers not to origin, but to the preeminence of Jesus Christ over all of creation.
Jesus Christ was in the beginning with the Father. That is actually a reference to eternity past. As long as God the Father has existed (eternally) so also has Jesus Christ been in existence.
You don't even believe in Jesus Christ in the first place. So do not attempt to turn this thread in that direction.
No, it does not. The word 'He' is not found in the original in John 8:24. You will note that the word 'He' when included in an English translation is italicized, or should be as it is in the NASB for instance. That means that it was added in the English but does not appear in the original.
Here. Look at it in the Greek. >> John 8:24 Biblos Interlinear Bible You will note that in the English translation right under the Greek word 'eimi' [I am,] the word 'he' is in brackets.
You make unfounded accusations.
I am sorry but i am not greek..
You dont have to answer this because it is off topic but it has to do with my point..
Would you get to heaven if your bible suddenly was no longer available?
Or can you connect with the same freguency christ did?
If you can connect then you will no longer be worried about one or two verses that dont see eye to eye.
Last edited by clickinmx; 11-18-2012 at 06:41 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
