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Romans 2 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
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This scripture you quoted says absolutely nothing about Jesus Christ saving us from eternal hell. You know it doesn't as well. It's about wrath and judgement .
For your convenience I have bolded what you are seeing and adding to this scripture.
Romans 2 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,you are going to eternal hell you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when he throws you into eternal hell when his righteous judgment will be revealed prior to throwing you into hell
You put these scriptures up to support that scripture says we are saved from eternal torment in response to my request that you show from the scripture that we are saved from eternal hell. I think you know exactly what I mean by a life of hell on earth, being bound by satan and the yoke of slavery from the misunderstanding of scripture. Jesus said those bible believing Pharisees travelled land and see to make converts and make them twice the sons of hell they are.
You know very well too that I am talking about the life of hell of not knowing God in the world of hell. How could you ever have any compassion towards the world if you think life outside of knowing Him is anything but hell?. Why do you think He preached good news, healed the broken hearted, set the prisoner free, opened the eyes of the blind, went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil ?, haven't you read the gospels ? Where are the scriptures that state we are saved from eternal torment ?.
I am talking about the verses I quoted, and if you want to think it is hell, then so be it. But of course you only want to make it sound like that is what I am saying, which makes me wonder why you insist on making my arguments for me. So, you are saying that this angry wrathful God torments people here on earth until He saves you, and then he stops? The problem with your argument is the fact that earthly struggles DO NOT stop when you are saved. In Paul's case it was only the begining, the beatings, whippings, insults, stonings, imprisonment and his execution came later. No, "storing it up for the day of judgment" means exactly what it says. God's wrath will be revealed to the wicked on the day of judgment, not today.
I am talking about the verses I quoted, and if you want to think it is hell, then so be it. But of course you only want to make it sound like that is what I am saying, which makes me wonder why you insist on making my arguments for me. So, you are saying that this angry wrathful God torments people here on earth until He saves you, and then he stops? The problem with your argument is the fact that earthly struggles DO NOT stop when you are saved. In Paul's case it was only the begining, the beatings, whippings, insults, stonings, imprisonment and his execution came later. No, "storing it up for the day of judgment" means exactly what it says. God's wrath will be revealed to the wicked on the day of judgment, not today.
Are the verses you quoted to me,in your mind referring to eternal hell ? Yes or no. If not then why are you quoting them .. I haven't said a thing about God tormenting folk, so stop making stuff up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
Romans 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
I'm still waiting for your saved from eternal hell scripture. Surely you who profess that the bible to the last word on everything, can find at least one verse of scripture that says we are saved from eternal hell. It's amazing you see what's not there, but refuse to see what is.
I am talking about the verses I quoted, and if you want to think it is hell, then so be it. But of course you only want to make it sound like that is what I am saying, which makes me wonder why you insist on making my arguments for me. So, you are saying that this angry wrathful God torments people here on earth until He saves you, and then he stops? The problem with your argument is the fact that earthly struggles DO NOT stop when you are saved. In Paul's case it was only the begining, the beatings, whippings, insults, stonings, imprisonment and his execution came later. No, "storing it up for the day of judgment" means exactly what it says. God's wrath will be revealed to the wicked on the day of judgment, not today.
So you do not believe He is an ever present help in times of trouble ?. How about throughout the Old Testament scriptures where God delivered Israel from its enemies.
I'm still waiting for at least one Incy little scripture that states we are saved from eternal hell. If you go back to my first response to you on this thread I quoted scripture that clearly defines what salvation is. I have plenty more too. How is it you cannot even come up with one scripture that even vaguely says "we are saved from eternal torment"?.
This scripture you quoted says absolutely nothing about Jesus Christ saving us from eternal hell. You know it doesn't as well. It's about wrath and judgement
You made an attepmt to define the wrath of God, but it did not go too well. First you said it simply means the hell on earth, but I am not sure what you are saying now that it turned out that it actually talks about the day of judgment. I also don't know how you would explain the fact that the Bible is full of stories of godly people who suffered greatly for God's name, so this universalist "hell on earth in hands of wrathful God" theory is not holding water. No worries, I know nothing will change your mind, so feel free to re-define the 'wrath of God' as many times as you wish.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 02-04-2013 at 12:35 PM..
You made an attepmt to define the wrath of God, but it did not go too well. First you said it simply means the hell on earth, but I am not sure what you are saying now that it turned out that it actually talks about the day of judgment. I also don't know how you would explain the fact that the Bible is full of stores of godly people who suffered greatly for God's name, so this unioverslaist "hell on earth in hands of wrtahful God" theory is not holding water. No worries, I know nothing will change your mind, so feel free to re-define the 'wrath of God' as many times as you wish.
Can you show me where I defined wrath as being hell on earth ?i have said that he came to save us from a life of hell( the fallen state of man). The only time I have mentioned wrath on this thread is to tell you it does not mean eternal torment nor can it be defined as being eternal torment. You said that I said God is tormenting us and I haven't and now you are saying that I said the wrath of God is hell on earth and I haven't,why are you making this stuff up ?. It's you who is redefining the meaning of wrath by saying it is eternal torment. It's astonishing that an intelligent person like yourself cannot see that you are doing this.
Do you a bible believer actually have a bible verse that states that we are saved from eternal hell ?. I'm still waiting to hear back about it.
The wrath of God is the effects of living by a carnal mind(Gen 3:17-19). When you believe Jesus Christ( not i believe in Jesus and the bible now I'm no longer going to eternal hell), but actually believe him, then you become spiritually minded and begin to think and act like him and the wrath is lifted(you begin to weed the garden and replenish it).
So, 'hell on earth' is not same as 'life of hell on earth'? LOL
Have a nice day.
Here you go again when you can't back up with scripture what you believe, you take something someone says and twists it.
A life of hell on earth or hell being your life on earth,is what your life is if you don't know who Life is. There is no teaching in the bible about being saved from eternal life, there is endless examples of lives being saved from everything but that.
I'm still waiting for a scripture from you (which you haven't given before you say you have) from your bible where it states that we are saved from eternal hell, I've been asking for this scripture all day, surely by now you must have found one. If you are so convinced its there in the scripture lets hear it(the suspense is killing me)
Also which dictionary are using that defines wrath and anger as meaning eternal torment ?.
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