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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains
Not only is this illegal in America, it is against God's definition of marriage.
Your definition maybe. There are many Christians who debate the opposite interpretation.
That's the point isn't it? The scripture very clearly defines God's design and definition for marriage. People can debate it all they want but it won't change God's view of it. Not even if 100% of the people on earth agreed that it should be different.
The people who argue differently are trying to conform the scriptures into their own belief system and desires instead of conforming themselves to the scriptures. That's idolatry because it raises them up to God's status and lowers God to a created being status (us). It's that cut and dry.
Also, something very crucial to remember is that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian actually IS a Christian.
I could wear an orange robe, shave my head, chant and call myself a Hare Krishna all day long. But, unless I'm LIVING OUT what they believe, I would be a fake and damaging who they really are.
Another example: What if I insistently told everyone I was a member of your family but acted contrarily to what your family believes? What if I told everyone that to be a member of monumentus's family meant believing in this or that when you really don't? Would I really be a member of your family or would I be a fake and hurting who the monumentus family really is?
People don't decide they want to be considered Christians and then NOT follow the book that defines Christianity and makes the rules.
There's a scripture that expresses this very well that refers to the day we all stand before God. Matthew 7:21-23 says,
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"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
These are the folks who claimed to be Christians and went through the motions but didn't actually have a relationship with God. They did these things in their own efforts, often piecing together the parts of scripture that they liked and discarding the rest. Being a Christian is having that personal relationship with God and accepting His whole word, obeying it. In the above verse it says, "but he who does the will of My Father" -- it's in doing the will of the Father, not acting on our own and doing what we think is right.
We don't define Christianity. God does. Christians believe what HE said and adjusted their lives accordingly. You can't create Christianity out of the parts you like and discard the rest. Again, that's idolatry, placing yourself in God's position and lowering God down to man's position.
God has one people and one way. Any other message is against Him.
That's the point isn't it? The scripture very clearly defines God's design and definition for marriage. People can debate it all they want but it won't change God's view of it.
Even if there is a god - and there is no reason to think so - you would not be debating gods view of anything. You have no idea what its view on anything is or might be. All you can do is debate your interpretation of words you feel were written or inspired by that god in order to guess at what its views are.
And many people simply do not share your interpretation that this design and definition of marriage IS what god laid out. It is not a "clearly defined" as you feel any many branches of Christianity have a completely different interpretation to the ones espoused here.
But alas it is common practice in religion to decide which interpretation and definition is "correct" and declare that it is everyone else that is "trying to conform the scriptures into their own belief system". Meanwhile they say the exact same thing about you. Each convinced they are correct and each convinced that the other is not "really a Christian they just call themselves that". How quick each is to disown the other.
Before this gets derailed into a atheist rant on why someone doesn't believe in God or Christianity.
Back to the topic.
I went to the party and I can say that after that, I personally would never have any at my party. It just felt weird seeing 2-3 random chicks giving lap dances and putting there goodies inches away from people faces that are supposed Christians and one of them might have been a young pastor too. For the unbelievers there, they knew no better, so i couldn't expect much out of them.
Even the non christians there were saying they hope their daughter never turns out to be one of those girls even though their getting lap dances from them. The girl asked me if im just going to do nothing all night, i guess because i wasnt throwing dollars at them and asking them for a dance. So this just basic proof that true Christians dont need strippers at a bachelor party. I dont see this as anything one could brag about when giving their testimony.
Before this gets derailed into a atheist rant on why someone doesn't believe in God or Christianity.
Back to the topic.
I went to the party and I can say that after that, I personally would never have any at my party. It just felt weird seeing 2-3 random chicks giving lap dances and putting there goodies inches away from people faces that are supposed Christians and one of them might have been a young pastor too. For the unbelievers there, they knew no better, so i couldn't expect much out of them.
Even the non christians there were saying they hope their daughter never turns out to be one of those girls even though their getting lap dances from them. The girl asked me if im just going to do nothing all night, i guess because i wasnt throwing dollars at them and asking them for a dance. So this just basic proof that true Christians dont need strippers at a bachelor party. I dont see this as anything one could brag about when giving their testimony.
SAAN, if I may respond biblically, as a brother in Christ?
You said originally that you would never have this at your own bachelor party. Knowing that this was going to happen at this party, why did you even go? The Christ-like thing to do here would to have apologized to your friend and let him know that you would like to celebrate with him but that, given the circumstances of the celebration, you couldn't possibly attend.
Were you more afraid of what others might think of you more than what God thinks?
Before this gets derailed into a atheist rant on why someone doesn't believe in God or Christianity.
Back to the topic.
I went to the party and I can say that after that, I personally would never have any at my party. It just felt weird seeing 2-3 random chicks giving lap dances and putting there goodies inches away from people faces that are supposed Christians and one of them might have been a young pastor too. For the unbelievers there, they knew no better, so i couldn't expect much out of them.
Even the non christians there were saying they hope their daughter never turns out to be one of those girls even though their getting lap dances from them. The girl asked me if im just going to do nothing all night, i guess because i wasnt throwing dollars at them and asking them for a dance. So this just basic proof that true Christians dont need strippers at a bachelor party. I dont see this as anything one could brag about when giving their testimony.
Moderator cut: Off topic
we all have free will to do as we please - so inviting strippers to a party isn't going to get anyone struck down by lightening, lol.
But Christians are supposed to understand, or grow in the understanding, that when we choose to follow Jesus we are opening ourselves up to being changed - different, no longer slaves to our baser instincts of greed, selfishness, gluttony, ego or depravity.
We seek to follow Him and his examples of how to live, how to treat others and how to respect the gifts we've been given.
Striving toward this is a journey that really never ends, and some of us are farther along on that journey than others. But a good place to start would be to understand that having strippers at a party is not honoring God or our commitment to Him
SAAN, if I may respond biblically, as a brother in Christ?
You said originally that you would never have this at your own bachelor party. Knowing that this was going to happen at this party, why did you even go? The Christ-like thing to do here would to have apologized to your friend and let him know that you would like to celebrate with him but that, given the circumstances of the celebration, you couldn't possibly attend.
Were you more afraid of what others might think of you more than what God thinks?
When you are good friends with the person, you are more at the party for them than skanky strippers. I wasn't going to waste my money on some random girl I don't know or care to know. I dont think he even wanted any there, it was his friends that got some.
But like I said, I will never have any at my bachelor party.
So he has "friends" who don't respect him or his beliefs.
Yikes. I'd get new friends. I'd also stand up for myself more. There is the word "no". It's quite handy.
I have to agree with this. Standing up for your faith, which is supposed to be the core belief that you live your life by, is more important. You can show support to your friends in other ways. Standing up for your faith and not attending would have been a stronger witness and it would have been supporting him in his faith. Attending showed that you're willing to compromise your faith and does damage to your witness with unbelievers.
I have to agree with this. Standing up for your faith, which is supposed to be the core belief that you live your life by, is more important. You can show support to your friends in other ways. Standing up for your faith and not attending would have been a stronger witness and it would have been supporting him in his faith. Attending showed that you're willing to compromise your faith and does damage to your witness with unbelievers.
But at the same time, I did stand out, because I was not paying them any attention or giving them money for dances. Alot of the time I was out on the balcony or looking at the game on TV. Thats why the girl kept bothering me as to why I wasn't drinking and getting dances.
Pretty much I showed up to show support for my friend and left after an hour when more ladies showed up. I left early way before anyone else because im not into that environment and watching some young girl collect dollars off the floor like a dog that spots a treat was a turn off.
SAAN is right, the thread is being derailed from the topic
It is - but if you truely believe you have evidence for the claims then I would welcome a thread from you on the subject in the proper place and forum if you feel capable to deliver it.
What I am saying on topic however is that there is a difference between your gods opinion and words - and your interpretation of those words.
The OP asks is it wrong for Christians to do X - and the answer is that it entirely depends on _which_ Christians you talk to. Because each has his own interpretations of the words of said god and each believes his to be the correct one. There are many Christians debating for things like polygamy as mentioned on the thread - as there are many debating against it. And each feels their interpretation of scripture supports their position.
Perhaps the answer is that Christianity is a personal journey and it is up to each Christian to evaluate the life of Christ for themselves and decide in their own heart what is "right" or "wrong". This idea that any one Christian - or any group of Christians - can universally declare one interpretation to be "True Christianity" is where the danger lies - especially if it leads you to declare others to be not true Christians - or people twisting and warping scripture to their own ends. They would simply say the same of you and conversation would break down and fail.
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