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At some point soon after the church is taken off the earth, perhaps within a few weeks, or possibly after a year or two, the seventieth week of Daniel in which the tribulation, also referred to as the time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) will begin.
This period will officially begin with the signing of a peace treaty by the man of lawlessness who is the prince who is to come, with Israel.
Daniel 9:27 ''And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week (7 literal years- Daniel's seventieth week), but in the middle of the week (3 1/2 literal years) he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.''
In the middle of Daniel's seventieth week the man of lawlessness will break the covenant and install himself in the temple which will have been rebuilt before Daniel's seventieth week begins, or at the very beginning of it, and demand to be worshipped as God. It is at this time that those believing Jews who have paid attention to Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:15-16 concerning the abomination of desolation will flee to the mountains where Revelation 12:6 says they will be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days which is the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's seventieth week - the great Tribulation.
Revelation 12:6 Then the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Revelation 12:14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, (3 1/2 years; one thousand two hundred and sixty days - using a 360 day year) from the presence of the serpent.
The Jews who pay attention to the warning that Jesus gave (the Bible will be available in the Tribulation) will be safe in the wilderness place that was prepared for them. They will survive to the end of the Tribulation to go into the Millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies.
But there will also be believing Gentiles who will survive the Tribulation as well as unbelieving Gentiles. These Gentiles will be judged at the judgment of the Nations when Christ returns (Matthew 25:32-45). The sheep (Matthew 25:33) represent believing Gentiles who will go into the Millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies. These are the ones spoken of in Matthew 24:13.
Matthew 24:13 ''But the one who endures to the end (of the Tribulation) he will be saved (not a reference to eternal salvation although he is, but to physical deliverance to go into the Millennial kingdom in his mortal body).
The goats (Matthew 25:33) will be sent to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).
There has to be surviving believers of the Tribulation in order for there to be mortal men to go into the Millennium. All believers who were martyred during the Tribulation will be in their resurrection bodies in the Millennium.
The Millennium will begin with believers only. No unbeliever will go into the beginning of the Millennium. They will be taken off the earth and as stated above, sent to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).
As people are born in the Millennium there will be many who will not come to Jesus for salvation. While there will be outward obedience on the part of the unbeliever for the most part (mortal man will still have a sin nature), many will not believe on Christ even though He is on the earth reigning from the throne of David. These will be those who will openly rebel against Jesus when Satan is temporarily released from his confinement in the pit after the Millennium has ended (Revelation 20:7-9).
Oh, by the way, Luke 17:34-36 is not the rapture, but refers to the judgment associated with Jesus' return at the end of the Tribulation. No unbeliever will be left on the earth to go into the Millennium. Only believers will be left on the earth to begin the Millennial kingdom.
The rapture or catching up of the church will have occurred before the Tribulation begins and is spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-28-2013 at 04:59 PM..
1st Thess. 4 vs 13-17 is in connection to RESURRECTION not rapture.
Jesus ' brothers' who are asleep [ verse 13 ] Asleep in the grave.
Verse 16, the 'dead' in Christ rise first [ Rev. 20 v 6 ] 'rise first' means resurrected earlier or first ones resurrected.
The loud shout , the trumpet call, is to awaken the dead not the living.
Then, or afterwards, those of Jesus 'brothers' [ Matthew 25 v 40; 1st Thess 4 v 13 ] who are still alive will be 'caught up' as Jesus was 'caught up' when Jesus was ascended up to heaven after Jesus was resurrected from the dead.- Acts 2 v 32; 3 v 15; 13 vs 30,37
Jesus was not 'caught up ' [ Acts 1 v 9 ] until after Jesus was resurrected from the dead.
'Flesh' [ physical ] can Not inherit the kingdom- 1st Cor. 15 vs 50,52
Notice the connection to the 'trumpet' with 1st Cor. 15 v 52 and 1st Thess. 4 v 16 [ both connected with resurrection ]
Those were baptized, Not into the likeness of Jesus' life, but into Jesus 'death' ... in the likeness of his 'death'.....see Romans 6 vs 3 to 5
At some point soon after the church is taken off the earth, perhaps within a few weeks, or possibly after a year or two, the seventieth week of Daniel in which the tribulation, also referred to as the time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) will begin.
This period will officially begin with the signing of a peace treaty by the man of lawlessness who is the prince who is to come, with Israel.
Daniel 9:27 ''And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week (7 literal years- Daniel's seventieth week), but in the middle of the week (3 1/2 literal years) he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.''
In the middle of Daniel's seventieth week the man of lawlessness will break the covenant and install himself in the temple which will have been rebuilt before Daniel's seventieth week begins, or at the very beginning of it, and demand to be worshipped as God. It is at this time that those believing Jews who have paid attention to Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:15-16 concerning the abomination of desolation will flee to the mountains where Revelation 12:6 says they will be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days which is the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's seventieth week - the great Tribulation.
Revelation 12:6 Then the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Revelation 12:14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, (3 1/2 years; one thousand two hundred and sixty days - using a 360 day year) from the presence of the serpent.
The Jews who pay attention to the warning that Jesus gave (the Bible will be available in the Tribulation) will be safe in the wilderness place that was prepared for them. They will survive to the end of the Tribulation to go into the Millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies.
But there will also be believing Gentiles who will survive the Tribulation as well as unbelieving Gentiles. These Gentiles will be judged at the judgment of the Nations when Christ returns (Matthew 25:32-45). The sheep (Matthew 25:33) represent believing Gentiles who will go into the Millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies. These are the ones spoken of in Matthew 24:13.
Matthew 24:13 ''But the one who endures to the end (of the Tribulation) he will be saved (not a reference to eternal salvation although he is, but to physical deliverance to go into the Millennial kingdom in his mortal body).
The goats (Matthew 25:33) will be sent to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).
There has to be surviving believers of the Tribulation in order for there to be mortal men to go into the Millennium. All believers who were martyred during the Tribulation will be in their resurrection bodies in the Millennium.
The Millennium will begin with believers only. No unbeliever will go into the beginning of the Millennium. They will be taken off the earth and as stated above, sent to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).
As people are born in the Millennium there will be many who will not come to Jesus for salvation. While there will be outward obedience on the part of the unbeliever for the most part (mortal man will still have a sin nature), many will not believe on Christ even though He is on the earth reigning from the throne of David. These will be those who will openly rebel against Jesus when Satan is temporarily released from his confinement in the pit after the Millennium has ended (Revelation 20:7-9).
Oh, by the way, Luke 17:34-36 is not the rapture, but refers to the judgment associated with Jesus' return at the end of the Tribulation. No unbeliever will be left on the earth to go into the Millennium. Only believers will be left on the earth to begin the Millennial kingdom.
The rapture or catching up of the church will have occurred before the Tribulation begins and is spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.
Yall pay close attention folks. As Jesus warns us in the first seal many will come
1st Thess. 4 vs 13-17 is in connection to RESURRECTION not rapture.
Jesus ' brothers' who are asleep [ verse 13 ] Asleep in the grave.
Verse 16, the 'dead' in Christ rise first [ Rev. 20 v 6 ] 'rise first' means resurrected earlier or first ones resurrected.
The loud shout , the trumpet call, is to awaken the dead not the living.
Then, or afterwards, those of Jesus 'brothers' [ Matthew 25 v 40; 1st Thess 4 v 13 ] who are still alive will be 'caught up' as Jesus was 'caught up' when Jesus was ascended up to heaven after Jesus was resurrected from the dead.- Acts 2 v 32; 3 v 15; 13 vs 30,37
Jesus was not 'caught up ' [ Acts 1 v 9 ] until after Jesus was resurrected from the dead.
'Flesh' [ physical ] can Not inherit the kingdom- 1st Cor. 15 vs 50,52
Notice the connection to the 'trumpet' with 1st Cor. 15 v 52 and 1st Thess. 4 v 16 [ both connected with resurrection ]
Those were baptized, Not into the likeness of Jesus' life, but into Jesus 'death' ... in the likeness of his 'death'.....see Romans 6 vs 3 to 5
The above is with reference to post #71.
As I have told you before, the resurrection of the church occurs at the rapture of the church. They are simultaneous. The word 'Caught up' in 1 Thessalonians 4: 17 is what we refer to as the 'rapture' and is taken from the Latin word rapturo which is a translation of the Greek word harpazó.
Therefore, from the Greek harpazó, to the Latin rapturo, to our English terminology 'rapture' which is the phrase 'caught up' in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Then we which are alive and remain,.... See Gill on 1 Thessalonians 4:15.
shall be caught up; suddenly, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and with force and power; by the power of Christ, and by the ministry and means of the holy angels; and to which rapture will contribute, the agility which the bodies both of the raised and changed saints will have: and this rapture of the living saints will be
Shall Be Caught up (726) (harpazo from haireô = take, in NT only in middle voice = haireomai = to take for oneself, to choose; akin to airo = to raise up) means to snatch up or way, to seize or seize upon, to steal (see comparison to klepto below), to catch away or up, to pluck, to pull.
Harpazo means to take suddenly and vehemently, often with violence and speed or quickly and without warning. The idea is to take by force with a sudden swoop and usually indicates a force which cannot be resisted. In eschatological terms (future events, prophetically related) as in the present verse, harpazo refers to what is often known as the "rapture" (Latin = raptura = seizing or Latin = rapio = seize, snatch)
Harpazo thus can be translated by the verb to rapture which describes the act of conveying or transporting a person from one place to another or from one sphere of existence to another. The English word rapture can also convey the idea of ecstasy as with one who is "carried out of" oneself with joy, but that is not the primary sense conveyed by the NT usage here in 1 Thessalonians. 1Thessalonians 4:17-18 Commentary
To answer the original question ... all forms of millennialism, that is, the teaching that Christ will reign visibly over an earthly kingdom for a thousand years before the Day of Resurrection and Judgment is unbiblical. See Matt. 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, Luke 23:43, Mark 13:32-37, Luke 18:8, John 18:36.
As post #71 clearly shows, Millenarians openly or covertly attempt to be date setters. They almost always base their date setting on crass literalism of OT scriptures then franticly superimpose their "stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations.''.
What is clear from scriptures is that this false teaching has plagued believers for centuries.
1) The Jews were looking for earthly king to re-establish King David's throne
King Herod was threaten by this, thus the reason for the 2yr and younger male babies being killed
Many Jews stopped following Jesus when it became apparent he wasn't going to be their earthly king John 6:25-71
The charge before Pontius Pilot was that Jesus was proclaiming himself as a earthly king
to which they boasted "“Wehavenokingbut Caesar,” John 19:15
2) About 30 AD ... Acts 1:6 the disciples thought Jesus was going to re-establish the earthly kingdom rule
3) About 50 AD 1 Thessalonians 4 people thought they missed the second coming of Jesus (the originators of "left behind")
4) the clear answer of Jesus: "My kingdom is NOT of this world"
Last edited by twin.spin; 07-29-2013 at 08:09 AM..
Reason: poor spelling and spacing problems
At some point soon after the church is taken off the earth, perhaps within a few weeks, or possibly after a year or two, the seventieth week of Daniel in which the tribulation, also referred to as the time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) will begin.
This period will officially begin with the signing of a peace treaty by the man of lawlessness who is the prince who is to come, with Israel.
Daniel 9:27 ''And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week (7 literal years- Daniel's seventieth week), but in the middle of the week (3 1/2 literal years) he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.''
In the middle of Daniel's seventieth week the man of lawlessness will break the covenant and install himself in the temple which will have been rebuilt before Daniel's seventieth week begins, or at the very beginning of it, and demand to be worshipped as God. It is at this time that those believing Jews who have paid attention to Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:15-16 concerning the abomination of desolation will flee to the mountains where Revelation 12:6 says they will be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days which is the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's seventieth week - the great Tribulation.
Revelation 12:6 Then the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Revelation 12:14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, (3 1/2 years; one thousand two hundred and sixty days - using a 360 day year) from the presence of the serpent.
The Jews who pay attention to the warning that Jesus gave (the Bible will be available in the Tribulation) will be safe in the wilderness place that was prepared for them. They will survive to the end of the Tribulation to go into the Millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies.
But there will also be believing Gentiles who will survive the Tribulation as well as unbelieving Gentiles. These Gentiles will be judged at the judgment of the Nations when Christ returns (Matthew 25:32-45). The sheep (Matthew 25:33) represent believing Gentiles who will go into the Millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies. These are the ones spoken of in Matthew 24:13.
Matthew 24:13 ''But the one who endures to the end (of the Tribulation) he will be saved (not a reference to eternal salvation although he is, but to physical deliverance to go into the Millennial kingdom in his mortal body).
The goats (Matthew 25:33) will be sent to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).
There has to be surviving believers of the Tribulation in order for there to be mortal men to go into the Millennium. All believers who were martyred during the Tribulation will be in their resurrection bodies in the Millennium.
The Millennium will begin with believers only. No unbeliever will go into the beginning of the Millennium. They will be taken off the earth and as stated above, sent to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).
As people are born in the Millennium there will be many who will not come to Jesus for salvation. While there will be outward obedience on the part of the unbeliever for the most part (mortal man will still have a sin nature), many will not believe on Christ even though He is on the earth reigning from the throne of David. These will be those who will openly rebel against Jesus when Satan is temporarily released from his confinement in the pit after the Millennium has ended (Revelation 20:7-9).
Oh, by the way, Luke 17:34-36 is not the rapture, but refers to the judgment associated with Jesus' return at the end of the Tribulation. No unbeliever will be left on the earth to go into the Millennium. Only believers will be left on the earth to begin the Millennial kingdom.
The rapture or catching up of the church will have occurred before the Tribulation begins and is spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.
If anyone is unclear about anything I've said above, let me know and I will try to clarify it for you.
To answer the original question ... all forms of millennialism, that is, the teaching that Christ will reign visibly over an earthly kingdom for a thousand years before the Day of Resurrection and Judgment is unbiblical. See Matt. 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, Luke 23:43, Mark 13:32-37, Luke 18:8, John 18:36.
As post #71 clearly shows, Millenarians openly or covertly attempt to be date setters. They almost always base their date setting on crass literalism of OT scriptures then franticly superimpose their "stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations.''.
What is clear from scriptures is that this false teaching has plagued believers for centuries.
1) The Jews were looking for earthly king to re-establish King David's throne
King Herod was threaten by this, thus the reason for the 2yr and younger male babies being killed
Many Jews stopped following Jesus when it became apparent he wasn't going to be their earthly king John 6:25-71
The charge before Pontius Pilot was that Jesus was proclaiming himself as a earthly king
to which they boasted "“Wehavenokingbut Caesar,†John 19:15
2) About 30 AD ... Acts 1:6 the disciples thought Jesus was going to re-establish the earthly kingdom rule
3) About 50 AD 1 Thessalonians 4 people thought they missed the second coming of Jesus (the originators of "left behind")
4) the clear answer of Jesus: "My kingdom is NOT of this world"
You must be using some new bible that has changed God's word if this is what you believe.
You must be using some new bible that has changed God's word if this is what you believe.
Oh my does your bible have these qwoted scripture form
Matthew, Mark,, Luke, John. Maybe if you dont take the time
To read scriptures. Or all the words of other Posters.
Can you hear Jesus words written in Red.
Its not Satan calling you and others out.
Try reading what our Father has to say to you
and others premoting this fly away Doctrine.
THUS SAYS THE LORD.
So now Hear the word of the Lord.
Ezekiel 13 whole chaptures for you.
But focus hard on the fly away Doctrine
With verse 13:18-23
We are to stay and fight. Your misleading our Fathers
Children right in to Satans hands.
The Antichrist comes on 666 ,,,,6th trump,,,,6th seal,,, 6th vial
Satan ( the antichrist) comes looking just like Jesus.
Not with horns comming out his forehead with
A pitched fork.
He is gonna be healing the blind thats the antichrist Im talking about.
Hes gonna be healing the lame. Maken em walk again. Satan will.
Snapping his fingers ( In the sight of men ) maken
Lighting come from the clouds.
He is comming ( PEACEFULY) to fool you.
To still your soul.
This is Satan.
Please reconsider and read it Dude.
Only 7 cronological events folks.
Our Lord and Savior only comes one more time
That my Brother is his 2nd advent.
Read all the scriptures you have been warned with
From me in this thread.
Its Jesus words "written" in red, thats what sound Doctrine is.
Again the church is spared, that have these seals
Jesus himself gives you. You need to read all to show yourself apoved.
Or eles youll be in bed with Satan when our Father comes on 777
Im done here.
The trumpeth has been sounded
Take Heed
Thus says the Lord
Ibe
Ibe a Disciple of Jesus Christ
Ibe in His Service
Oh my does your bible have these qwoted scripture form
Matthew, Mark,, Luke, John. Maybe if you dont take the time
To read scriptures. Or all the words of other Posters.
Can you hear Jesus words written in Red.
Its not Satan calling you and others out.
Try reading what our Father has to say to you
and others premoting this fly away Doctrine.
THUS SAYS THE LORD.
So now Hear the word of the Lord.
Ezekiel 13 whole chaptures for you.
But focus hard on the fly away Doctrine
With verse 13:18-23
We are to stay and fight. Your misleading our Fathers
Children right in to Satans hands.
The Antichrist comes on 666 ,,,,6th trump,,,,6th seal,,, 6th vial
Satan ( the antichrist) comes looking just like Jesus.
Not with horns comming out his forehead with
A pitched fork.
He is gonna be healing the blind thats the antichrist Im talking about.
Hes gonna be healing the lame. Maken em walk again. Satan will.
Snapping his fingers ( In the sight of men ) maken
Lighting come from the clouds.
He is comming ( PEACEFULY) to fool you.
To still your soul.
This is Satan.
Please reconsider and read it Dude.
Only 7 cronological events folks.
Our Lord and Savior only comes one more time
That my Brother is his 2nd advent.
Read all the scriptures you have been warned with
From me in this thread.
Its Jesus words "written" in red, thats what sound Doctrine is.
Again the church is spared, that have these seals
Jesus himself gives you. You need to read all to show yourself apoved.
Or eles youll be in bed with Satan when our Father comes on 777
Im done here.
The trumpeth has been sounded
Take Heed
Thus says the Lord
Ibe
Ibe a Disciple of Jesus Christ
Ibe in His Service
You know God don't need you to correct Him and I don't need to waste time reading your attacks on God and His word. I am done with your.
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