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I don't think I ever did say I didn't believe in rapture, I say that it is not what people think it is. This trying to figure things out myself but I am looking at appointed feast days being fulfilled.
I know it's not what all these others preach and if somebody could explain it, they should be explaining the feast days.
I believe in the resurrection but the majority of believers in God do not obtain the first resurrection at all, their works are burned in the fire and whoever is left alive remaining will be caught up.
Very few people in all of history have obtained the reward of first resurrection and I use this word,' Reward,'' because that's what it is.
If your works cannot stand in the flames, then you will be saved but only as one who goes through a fire, and this means you die while the resurrected are left standing.
I don't pretend that I have achieved the goal of first resurrection, it is a hard thing, but before resurrection comes, what comes before?
People take the Bema judgment against Christians and use scripture to show a rapture but all they show is a division, a rapture of death where eagles come and eat and the siskins will all be laughing.
To have gained the honor and reward of first resurrection, you have to be appointed as one of those 144,000 that receive the reward in Revelation 14{Firstfruits}, and these are taken from all history, and they alone are the firstfruits of first resurrection, if you are not among them it is because you were considered a gentile and you will remain in the outer court of darkness with your salvation at the table of burnt offerings.
The time has always been at hand, the kingdom of heaven will not suddenly appear, you are the kingdom and everything in Revelation and Matthew 24 has to be completed in your own lifetime by you. Read the first verse Revelation says, Jesus comes quickly to those who race to the day of it.
I sympathize with Rapturites who are busy chewing on their nails and watching the headlines for any news that can be spinned by prophecy gurus into anything remotely resembling the Apocalypse. I used to be in that camp myself until about 2008 when I came to the painful realization that the rapture was never going to come. 2008 was a watershed year, in case the rapturites don't know. It marked the end of any possible extension of the generation Jesus talked about that is the darling of prophecy gurus
Nobody disputes that a Biblical generation is 40 years. That was clearly established in Exodus when the Israelites wandered in the desert 40 years "till that present generation died off".
The generation that saw the establishment of Israel in 1948 ended in 1988. If one really wants to push the envelope they can say, without much scriptural foundation, mind you, that the countdown started in 1967 with the capture of Jerusalem. This is not Biblical, but I'll give it to the rapturites anyway. That still leaves the fact that that generation which commenced in 1967 ended in 2007-2008. Some die-hard prophecy gurus are going out on an imaginary limb and saying that the generation ends in 2017. But even by the wildest stretch of the imagination they could make a case for this that would still leave the glaring fact that no 7-year tribulation has commenced in 2010, which should have kicked off with the pretribulation rapture. There's not even a mid-tribulation rapture in the offing since we are more than 3 1/2 years (1260 days) past 2010. The final embarrassment for the pro-rapturites is them painfully trying with all their might to stretch a generation to 70 years using David's lifetime or something. Again, totally non-Biblical. We are now talking about a lifespan, not a generation. A generation, by strict definition
A generation typically is the time it takes for a baby to grow and have children of its own. That's 40 years maximum. A 70 year old cannot start a new generation biologically.
Now let's look at the state of the world:
* a few earthquakes here and there but nothing that portends the kinds of stuff described in Revelation, not even the four horsemen.
* no major wars at all, not even on the horizon. No rumors of wars, no signs of wars--absolutely nothing but a few skirmishes in a few remote places like Africa that have absolutely relevance to Revelation. Even the Syrian conflict has pretty much resolved itself.
* absolutely no sign or hint of a charismatic figure that even remotely resembles the fabled antichrist who will take over the "revived Roman Empire".
* WHAT REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE? Europe is on the brink of splintering as the Euro struggles to stay alive. And the European Union is composed of 27 countries--far too many to be the 10 toes of the statue Daniel interpreted in Neb's dream.
* absolutely no sign of the temple being built on the site of Herod's Temple now occupied by the Muslim Dome of the Rock--and no indications it will be built there anytime in the near or distant future.
* Iran's new President is much more amenable to peace talks with Israel. Certainly he is not the nutjob that 'Am-a-damn-nut-job' was before him.
* Russia is in greater cooperation with the United States than at any time in its history. And Russia is posing no existential threats of any kind to Israel (Gog-Magog War, remember that? I didn't think so)
* No 7-year treaty with the antichrist that supposedly kicks off the tribulation is even hinted at in Israeli politics. Mention a 7-year treaty with the Palestianians, let alone one brokered by a literal "world leader" called antichrist and Jews will fit you for a straitjacket.
In short it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for anything to occur that would portend the end as Hal Lindsey and others have described. Quite the contrary, everything they said would happen has NOT materialized and has in fact gone in the opposite direction.
The generation Jesus spoke of is long gone and is history.
Now if pro-rapture people want to get up and debate any of the facts I've presented here feel free to do so. But I warn you this is not an esoteric debate on UR vs ET. These are cold hard facts that cannot be disputed.
There is no rapture coming.
As sure as the existence of God, the generation has not past as Jesus assured us that would be the case. The Bible indicates that upon Jesus' return, the remainder of the holy ones will rise to meet him in the air, since he has not returned yet, then obviously that is an event of the future. You will know beyond any doubt when he returns.
As sure as the existence of God, the generation has not past as Jesus assured us that would be the case. The Bible indicates that upon Jesus' return, the remainder of the holy ones will rise to meet him in the air, since he has not returned yet, then obviously that is an event of the future. You will know beyond any doubt when he returns.
You dont even know what day you are talking about, or what is being said.
What does Paul say?
"" Then, we who are left alive."
What has just taken place where only the righteous are left standing alive?
Paul is quoting Zechariah and he tells us the exact day, The Last Trump."
The last trump is not general saying, it is a science of the house of trumpets and the last trump is blown on an exact hour on an exact day EVERY YEAR.
Do you know how the last trump got its name?
Two horns were taken from the ram caught in the thicket and those two horns were so named," the first trump, and the last trump."
There is also a great trump and all 3 trumpets have exact days and exact reasons for being blown.
Jesus has a cloud of witnesses, and this is the meaning of Jesus coming in the clouds,specifically the two rains appointed on both atzerets.
You are reading scriptures of the day of division and you see the righteous taken and the wicked left behind when it is just the opposite,Paul says," THEN, AT THE LAST TRUMP ON ROSH HASHANAH, WE WHO ARE LEFT ALIVE WILL THEN BE CAUGHT UP.
On Rosh Hadhanah a person is sealed in their forehead and right hand against the judgement, but all Gentiles who have no seal of God will be divided.
What makes God put his seal in your forehead and right hand to protect you?
It's his promise, that whoever loves his Sabbaths and his feasts receive his seal of protection, and this is law,not opinion.
Actually - not that anyone cares - the best biblical scholars understand that in passages like Matthew 24, Jesus was talking about two events: The destruction of the Second Temple that would occur in 70 AD and his Second Coming at some unknown future date. If he in fact said what was reported in Matthew 24 (and the other Gospels as well), then this was a startlingly accurate prediction of the destruction of the Temple, which was indeed reduced to rubble and did indeed occur within the lifetime of the generation to whom Jesus would've been speaking in circa 33 AD.
When you look at the signs of the Second Coming - wars, pestilences, persecutions, false Christs, signs in the heavens, the preaching of the Gospel to all the world, etc., all occurring in an escalating manner like birth pangs - it's difficult to believe that Jesus or his listeners would have understood all of this happening within the lifetime of "this generation."
I listen regularly to a Rapture-oriented program called "Understanding the Times," produced by Olive Tree Ministries, https://olivetreeviews.org/. I also read a fair amount of scholarly Rapture-oriented literature, so I am fully hip to all the arguments. I think the Rapture, as distinct from the Second Coming, is COMPLETE NONSENSE. It would be harmless nonsense if it weren't such a distraction within the evangelical community.
Actually - not that anyone cares - the best biblical scholars understand that in passages like Matthew 24, Jesus was talking about two events: The destruction of the Second Temple that would occur in 70 AD and his Second Coming at some unknown future date. If he in fact said what was reported in Matthew 24 (and the other Gospels as well), then this was a startlingly accurate prediction of the destruction of the Temple, which was indeed reduced to rubble and did indeed occur within the lifetime of the generation to whom Jesus would've been speaking in circa 33 AD.
When you look at the signs of the Second Coming - wars, pestilences, persecutions, false Christs, signs in the heavens, the preaching of the Gospel to all the world, etc., all occurring in an escalating manner like birth pangs - it's difficult to believe that Jesus or his listeners would have understood all of this happening within the lifetime of "this generation."
.............................. I also read a fair amount of scholarly Rapture-oriented literature, so I am fully hip to all the arguments. I think the Rapture, as distinct from the Second Coming, is COMPLETE NONSENSE. It would be harmless nonsense if it weren't such a distraction within the evangelical community.
Yes, absolutely Jesus was speaking about two (2) events. A minor one and a MAJOR one.
The minor or limited one came in the year 70 when the Roman armies destroyed un-faithful Jerusalem.
The MAJOR one was set in the future (Rev.1:10 our day or time frame ).
Remember: Revelation was written well after the year 70 and the end of the 1st century.
Thus, all of Matthew 24 could Not apply to the first century.
Verse 21 is the modern great tribulation of Rev. 7:14,9.
In Scripture it is Not rapture but resurrection - 1st Corinthians 15:50
Just as there was No rapture in Noah's day (Matthew 24:37-38) there will be No rapture.
As I said I am merely parroting what all these prominent writers have written. When you contradict me you contradict them. If you want to call them liars indirectly by calling me a liar directly (liar is a strong word but that's essentially what you're doing; I take no offense) then do so.
You do realize you aren't making a point with this, right?
So...... you're admitting you're wrong. You're admitting you're a liar. So what if that just makes you like them. All it really means is that, at least they made some money selling books. Half of Christendom believes the Virgin Mary is the Queen of Heaven. So what? They're wrong too.
Actually - not that anyone cares - the best biblical scholars understand that in passages like Matthew 24, Jesus was talking about two events: The destruction of the Second Temple that would occur in 70 AD and his Second Coming at some unknown future date. If he in fact said what was reported in Matthew 24 (and the other Gospels as well), then this was a startlingly accurate prediction of the destruction of the Temple, which was indeed reduced to rubble and did indeed occur within the lifetime of the generation to whom Jesus would've been speaking in circa 33 AD.
When you look at the signs of the Second Coming - wars, pestilences, persecutions, false Christs, signs in the heavens, the preaching of the Gospel to all the world, etc., all occurring in an escalating manner like birth pangs - it's difficult to believe that Jesus or his listeners would have understood all of this happening within the lifetime of "this generation."
I listen regularly to a Rapture-oriented program called "Understanding the Times," produced by Olive Tree Ministries, https://olivetreeviews.org/. I also read a fair amount of scholarly Rapture-oriented literature, so I am fully hip to all the arguments. I think the Rapture, as distinct from the Second Coming, is COMPLETE NONSENSE. It would be harmless nonsense if it weren't such a distraction within the evangelical community.
Matthew 24 is simply explaining what has happened to a person after the fact. The people who u derstand Matthew 24 and the book of Revelation only understand in hindsight after it had already taken place in their own lives.
A Christian will never get there and Matthew 24 begins on Tishri 1.
It is telling you what happens after you have seen the abomination of desolation in the temple.
Case in point, you have not seen it, and it is doubtful that you will ever see it to even begin the walk in Matthew 24, and in Revelation.
Who knows who God calls, if you ever get serious, I am certainly willing to help.
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