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Yes, in this life. Obviously. The Bible makes it clear that after we die, we are judged. It says nothing about after death 2nd or 3rd chances which you believe in. Catholics believe in purgatory, which is basically the same belief, but those beliefs are simply not supported by the Bible. You are trying to connect dots, and conclude some verses must support it, but the truth is that such important thing would be written in crystal clarity and repeated 200 times just like salvation through faith is. You are adding it to support your beliefs.
Romans 8 says all creation will be brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
So there are the children of God (that's us) and those who are not children of God and who are not experiencing our glorious freedom.
Please tell me Finn, when will the ENTIRE CREATION be brought into our freedom? It can't take place during Christ's millennial reign because that ends in rebellion. It can't be during the new earth eon/age because people are still in bondage to death. So when is the entire creation freed into the same glorious freedom we enjoy and will yet enjoy to the fullest?
Romans 8 says all creation will be brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
So there are the children of God (that's us) and those who are not children of God and who are not experiencing our glorious freedom.
Please tell me Finn, when will the ENTIRE CREATION be brought into our freedom? It can't take place during Christ's millennial reign because that ends in rebellion. It can't be during the new earth eon/age because people are still in bondage to death. So when is the entire creation freed into the same glorious freedom we enjoy and will yet enjoy to the fullest?
No, you got it wrong. God is Responsible for People rejecting Him:
Rom_8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
We are held accountable but He (God) is RESPONSIBLE. This is what the entire Fundamentalist community doesn't understand.
I'm not surprised that in the mindset of liberalism (since the opposite [fundamentalist] seems to be the boogie man excuse for some of you) to exert blame and responsibility to anybody else other than oneself ... even to the point of God.
I know that this will be useless to tell you but for the sake of some others, concerning Romans 8:20, the word "creature" that is being used is not focusing on humanity. Rather what is being focused on is the balance of creation. Creation itself is subjected to the curse of man's rebellion against God which humanity is responsible for doing.
The things that are not in the scriptures but for some reason those who believe in eternal torment insist are there.
1) unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior from eternal hell, which is Christ The Lord.
How many of the people of Israel thought the coming Messiah was going to save them from eternal hell?...........diddly squat.
How many of them thought it was from sin?..........diddly squat
How many from their enemies?.............. Most of them
Which one did Jesus say it was?.....................
I think this may deserve a thread of its own, and the contradictory beliefs to justify eternal hell.
Here we are again from topic. Why does the bible not say we are saved from hell. It is very simple. The one who is righteous will go to Heaven and the wicked goes to hell. Both are final judgements of God. Both will stay where they are. Even Jesus cannot save them from hell.
When believers are in hell and see Jesus almost every one says:"Lord, now I repent" Jesus answers:"It is to late". Jesus taught repentance (Luke 13:3+5) . Happy is he whom his sins are forgiven (PS 32:1).
Here we are again from topic. Why does the bible not say we are saved from hell. It is very simple. The one who is righteous will go to Heaven and the wicked goes to hell. Both are final judgements of God. Both will stay where they are. Even Jesus cannot save them from hell.
When believers are in hell and see Jesus almost every one says:"Lord, now I repent" Jesus answers:"It is to late". Jesus taught repentance (Luke 13:3+5) . Happy is he whom his sins are forgiven (PS 32:1).
Are you being serious ?. The very thing you believe you are saved from is not stated so, yet throughout scripture there's references to being saved from missing the mark and the effects from it......... The opposite of enjoying life abundantly......... To find out what that is, read Genesis 3( where there is no mention of eternal hell)
I honestly would not have expected the bolded statement from you, jghorton. You never seemed to me to be someone who thought that a belief in Christ was only beneficial for the purpose of avoiding eternal hell. Are you saying that if there is no eternal hell, you would not still have the same passion and concern for people who reject the God you believe in?
Not what I was saying at all! - Thanks for asking. Christ said, "I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly" ... (not 'to keep you from going to hell.") My passion is a desire for everyone to discover God's offer of and plan for rich, full lives, lived in relationship with the living God. I want everyone to enter into God's Kingdom now and live victorious lives ... instead of wandering in the darkness and convolution of this world. It grieves my Spirit and worries me, when people are blinded to the things of God.
I'm not surprised that in the mindset of liberalism (since the opposite [fundamentalist] seems to be the boogie man excuse for some of you) to exert blame and responsibility to anybody else other than oneself ... even to the point of God.
I know that this will be useless to tell you but for the sake of some others, concerning Romans 8:20, the word "creature" that is being used is not focusing on humanity. Rather what is being focused on is the balance of creation. Creation itself is subjected to the curse of man's rebellion against God which humanity is responsible for doing.
We are part of that creation. Therefore we were made subject to vanity. Notice what your saying and what it says. It says NOT WILLINGLY but it was subjected to vanity BY God (the same who gives it hope).
Here we are again from topic. Why does the bible not say we are saved from hell. It is very simple. The one who is righteous will go to Heaven and the wicked goes to hell. Both are final judgements of God. Both will stay where they are. Even Jesus cannot save them from hell.
When believers are in hell and see Jesus almost every one says:"Lord, now I repent" Jesus answers:"It is to late". Jesus taught repentance (Luke 13:3+5) . Happy is he whom his sins are forgiven (PS 32:1).
Can you think of anyone Not wicked that went to hell ?_______
According to Acts [ 2 vs 27,31; Psalm 16 v 10 ] righteous Jesus went to hell.
So, Jesus, as a believer, was in hell until God resurrected Jesus out of the Bible's hell.- Acts 3 v 15; 13 vs 30,37
If the resurrected Jesus can not save anyone from hell then why does Jesus have the keys to unlock hell?__-Rev. 1 v 18
According to Revelation 20 vs 13,14 aren't all those in the Bible's hell 'delivered up' [ meaning resurrected out of hell, unlocked out out of biblical hell ] before emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic 'second death' for death and hell ?______
Since hell is cast into second death for vacated hell, then how can it be too late for those in hell ?_____Romans 6 v 7
So, what the Bible really teaches is that we are saved from hell. Saved because of the resurrection hope.- Acts 24 v 15.
At the soon coming ' time of separation ' [ Matthew 25 vs 31,32 ] the righteous 'sheep' are not going to heaven because they are alive on earth, and can remain alive on earth during Jesus' 1000-year reign over earth with the prospect of never having to die and go to the Bible's hell [ grave ] but the opportunity to gain everlasting life on earth.
It is right, that sin and death entered through Adam. Jesus, the second Adam, died for all the sins of this world, so all will be resurrected, the just and the unjust. The bible makes a clear separation. The just will not face the second death, but the wicked will end up in the lake of fire, which is destruction and not purification, they perish. But God loves the world, that anyone that believes on Jesus shall not perish, but have everlasting life. Their is everlasting life and damnation. I am sorry, not all are saved. Paul wanted to be rather condemned to save some Jews. He believed in UR?
Yes, the just and the unjust [ righteous and unrighteous ] will be resurrected according to Acts 24 v 15.
No where does it say the wicked will be resurrected but rather be destroyed - Psalm 92 v 7; 2nd Peter 3 vs 7,9
True Jesus died for all [ 1st John 1 v 7 ], but all will not end up following Jesus that is why Jesus' ransom covers MANY and Not covers all according to Matthew 20 v 28. Jesus' ransom does Not cover those who end up judged as wicked.
Those executed by the words from Jesus' mouth [ Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; Rev. 19 vs 11,15 ] will Not be resurrected.
Any of the resurrected just and unjust [ John 3 v 13 ] during Jesus' 1000-year reign over earth who choose to turn to wickedness will also end up in destruction [ second death ] including Satan being destroyed by Jesus - Hebrews 2 v 14 B.
Romans 8 says all creation will be brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
So there are the children of God (that's us) and those who are not children of God and who are not experiencing our glorious freedom.
Please tell me Finn, when will the ENTIRE CREATION be brought into our freedom? It can't take place during Christ's millennial reign because that ends in rebellion. It can't be during the new earth eon/age because people are still in bondage to death. So when is the entire creation freed into the same glorious freedom we enjoy and will yet enjoy to the fullest?
The above proves salvation after this life is over. But not immediately. There are yet two eons/ages to come. All mankind are not brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God in the next eon nor the one after that. So it must occur at the end of the eons.
Also, there is not one verse in all the bible which says if you don't believe in Jesus you will go to hell. No, not even one.
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