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Twin wants to straddle the fence between Arminianism and Calvinism, trettep. He wants to maintain, like Arminianism, that people are responsible for rejecting God, even though he believes, like Calvinism, that if God doesn't create faith within a person, they have no choice but to reject.
He sees the inconsistency, but cannot acknowledge it as such because he believes both ideas are scriptural.
A desperate, last ditch effort or attempt to save a few?
Why is stating a fact rich? Universalists can't stop talking about hell, and that is a fact.
I started a thread exactly like yours with the purpose of highlighting the strawman argument in your thread. Why do you think the mods closed down your thread before people even had a chance to post there?
You were asked to start a post about what you believe not attack what another believes, so no it was NOT a thread like mine Fin. And the Mods closed those thread for two reasons, one because I had asked something along the lines of not having et'ers post in it (to stop the fighting that usually goes along with this topic) and that is against the protocall here and, because YOU went right off the handle attacking my thread. The Mods saw you got very upset and so decided to close BOTH threads.
You were asked to start a post about what you believe not attack what another believes, so no it was NOT a thread like mine Fin. And the Mods closed those thread for two reasons, one because I had asked something along the lines of not having et'ers post in it (to stop the fighting that usually goes along with this topic) and that is against the protocall here and, because YOU went right off the handle attacking my thread. The Mods saw you got very upset and so decided to close BOTH threads.
My thread was exactly like your own strawman thread (by design), only from the non-UR POV.
You were asked to start a post about what you believe not attack what another believes, so no it was NOT a thread like mine Fin. And the Mods closed those thread for two reasons, one because I had asked something along the lines of not having et'ers post in it (to stop the fighting that usually goes along with this topic) and that is against the protocall here and, because YOU went right off the handle attacking my thread. The Mods saw you got very upset and so decided to close BOTH threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
My thread was exactly like your own strawman thread (by design), only from the non-UR POV.
do you really not get it Fin I had asked those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation to start a thread about why they believe what they believe.
Your thread had nothing to do with what you believe it was pure attack mode.
Your belief simply gives NO HOPE for the WORLD, and teaching that God the Father is a sinner because He did Not save everyone He sent Jesus to save, thus His/Gods arrow/Jesus missed the mark/Sin.
That eternal torment and annihilation teach that God missed the mark should tell everyone that there is really something WRONG with those belief's. But alsa I know that will not happen for many, but maybe for a few. and few there be that find it.
Twin wants to straddle the fence between Arminianism and Calvinism, trettep. He wants to maintain, like Arminianism, that people are responsible for rejecting God, even though he believes, like Calvinism, that if God doesn't create faith within a person, they have no choice but to reject.
He sees the inconsistency, but cannot acknowledge it as such because he believes both ideas are scriptural.
I believe he is ignoring scriptures such as these:
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
He also doesn't seem to realize the carnal mind CANNOT choose God. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Yet, the ETers will relocate those wicked CARNAL MINDED ones right into their fictional firey tormenting place.
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Paul is essentially telling us that God is RESPONSIBLE for us BEING sinners even though He hold US accountable. Therefore, in the end if anyone were to be tormented for the rest of Eternity then it would mean that God was RESPONSIBLE for them GOING there in the FIRST place. Praise Truth, that God is not that way. But that He is loving and finishes what He started.
Was it Gods purpose to save the world when He sent forth His son?
Is missing the mark sin?
If the world is not saved according to Gods purpose did God then miss the mark?
Your answers will tell you whether your doctrine is ture or false.
Your thread had nothing to do with what you believe it was pure attack mode.
It was designed to be just like your thread, but then again, what does all this have to do with the topic of this thread? Your old thread is not the topic here.
Quote:
Your belief simply gives NO HOPE for the WORLD, and teaching that God the Father is a sinner because He did Not save everyone He sent Jesus to save, thus His/Gods arrow/Jesus missed the mark/Sin.
It gives the very hope Jesus came here to talk about, the hope of eternal life with Christ. Your beliefs gives false hope, it is a promise made by men, not by Jesus.
Quote:
That eternal torment and annihilation teach that God missed the mark
No, He accomplished what He came here to do. You created your own mark, and accuse Jesus for missing it, but it doesn't work that way. God creates the goals and the rules, not you.
Is this missing the mark? " How many times have I desired to gather your children, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing!"
Jesus wanted them to come (MANY TIMES), but they refused.
According to your argument it's missing the mark, but that is a false assumption, because Jesus mark was never to force anyone to come.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 12-28-2013 at 05:56 PM..
He also doesn't seem to realize the carnal mind CANNOT choose God. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Yet, the ETers will relocate those wicked CARNAL MINDED ones right into their fictional firey tormenting place.
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Actually, no, he completely agrees with that. Like I said, he straddles the fence. He believes people can do nothing but reject God of their own will, and that only God can override our will and create faith within us.
He also believes that it's your fault if you don't have faith.
:shrug:
Quote:
Paul is essentially telling us that God is RESPONSIBLE for us BEING sinners even though He hold US accountable. Therefore, in the end if anyone were to be tormented for the rest of Eternity then it would mean that God was RESPONSIBLE for them GOING there in the FIRST place. Praise Truth, that God is not that way. But that He is loving and finishes what He started.
Well, trettep, that is pretty close to what Twin believes: even though only God can create faith in a person that will save them from eternal torment, God still holds US accountable if that faith isn't created in us, and off to eternal hell we must go.
It was designed to be just like your thread, but then again, what does all this have to do with the topic of this thread? Your old thread is not the topic here.
It gives the very hope Jesus came here to talk about, the hope of eternal life with Christ. Your beliefs gives false hope, it is a promise made by men, not by Jesus.
No, He accomplished what He came here to do. You created your own mark, and accuse Jesus for missing it, but it doesn't work that way. God creates the goals and the rules, not you.
Is this missing the mark? " How many times have I desired to gather your children, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing!"
Jesus wanted them to come (MANY TIMES), but they refused.
According to your argument it's missing the mark, but that is a false assumption, because Jesus mark was never to force anyone to come.
Your brought it up by complaining that ur's are always harping on hell.
How does believing what we are commanded to teach, that being, Jesus is the saviour of ALL men, give a false hope?
And God will draw Israel under His wing when every knee bows and tongue confesses Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. In other words Fin all Israel will be SAVED, thus Jesus did not miss the mark. You just cannot see the END OF HIS-STORY.
So how can you say Jesus accomplished what He came to do when you do not believe in the salvation of the world? Did Jesus come to save the world? yes or no.
It was designed to be just like your thread, but then again, what does all this have to do with the topic of this thread? Your old thread is not the topic here.
It gives the very hope Jesus came here to talk about, the hope of eternal life with Christ. Your beliefs gives false hope, it is a promise made by men, not by Jesus.
No, He accomplished what He came here to do. You created your own mark, and accuse Jesus for missing it, but it doesn't work that way. God creates the goals and the rules, not you.
Is this missing the mark? " How many times have I desired to gather your children, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing!"
Jesus wanted them to come (MANY TIMES), but they refused.
According to your argument it's missing the mark, but that is a false assumption, because Jesus mark was never to force anyone to come.
So Finn_Jarber, you would have to be of the belief then that God gave the breath of life to everyone in the hopes that they would be saved right?
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do you really not get it Fin I had asked those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation to start a thread about why they believe what they believe.
question for all
