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Exactly, how could you not make yourself an available instrument vehicle vessel or whatever you want to see yourself as, to travel land sea to reach not only you loved ones but all heading for the horrors of eternal torment or annihilation. The truth is their is no real conviction in it by those who believe the unjust should go to meet such a fete, it is simply a belief and that is as far as it goes.
How can one call himself a "Christian" and not follow Christ in his efforts to save people. He did not sit around and wait for the priests (Ministers/pastors, etc) to do it for sure. And EVERY follower, followed that same course and did their utmost to aid others.
I agree to a degree. certainly I have no power to save another. However we each have the "power" to accept or reject such salvation.
But we are not talking about ourselves, are we? In order to help others find Christ, and accept Him into their lives you tell them about the Gospel aka evangelize to them, and then you pray they God will open their hearts. There are other ways of showing them the truth, but the two I mentioned are very important.
How can one call himself a "Christian" and not follow Christ in his efforts to save people. He did not sit around and wait for the priests (Ministers/pastors, etc) to do it for sure. And EVERY follower, followed that same course and did their utmost to aid others.
If the fundamentalist believed in the extreme horror of eternal torment, they lack the works and the conviction of their belief.
Obviously the extreme horror of what they say they believe in has not sunk in for them to be moved to act with any sense of urgency.
Approaching Severe storms across this nation are handled with greater urgency than the pending fete of those heading to the extreme horror of eternal hell............ Belief with no conviction = dead faith.
Twin.spin, again there is no other way around the fundamentalist view. It requires the permission of the believer in order to be saved. In their theology, God is only a standby enabler ready when the person comes to belief but powerless until then.
I see, so it doesn't really matter that despite being shown otherwise, you need to keep a certain storyline ... fine. Nobody can force you to read the truth that your mis-characterization isn't because you're naïve to it but because you need it to be.
I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him.
But the Holy Spirit has called me through the Gospel, enlightened me with his gifts, and
sanctified and preserved me in true faith, just as he calls, gathers, enlightens and sanctifies
the whole Christian church on earth and preserves it in union with Jesus Christ in the one
true faith. In this Christian church he daily and abundantly forgives all my sins, and the sins
of all believers, and on the last day he will raise me and all the dead and will grant eternal
life to me and to all who believe in Christ.
Face it ... that is your stumbling block which sent you off the deep end as Immanuel said would happen to those who reject the truth.
John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
When an unbeliever dies ... it is the "last day" and also at the great judgment.
Despite Satan's lie that we don't know, Jesus spoke know for us enough to know what happens beyond the grave.
Scriptures clearly teach that:
Jesus spoke to that concept in a parable "Rich man and Lazarus"
Jesus spoke to that directly in Matthew 25, Revelation 20-21 and other scriptures
OT scriptures speak of repenting and turning from evil ways otherwise that will be the death of the unbeliever \ evildoer
Proverbs 10:16
The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.
1 Chronicles 28:9
the Lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.
If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’
So many words . . . so many posts and not one simple answer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Do you ever just answer the questions put to you, Twin. It was a simple question: Does he have to choose God to be saved or not?
I see, so it doesn't really matter that despite being shown otherwise, you need to keep a certain storyline ... fine. Nobody can force you to read the truth that your mis-characterization isn't because you're naïve to it but because you need it to be.
I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him.
But the Holy Spirit has called me through the Gospel, enlightened me with his gifts, and
sanctified and preserved me in true faith, just as he calls, gathers, enlightens and sanctifies
the whole Christian church on earth and preserves it in union with Jesus Christ in the one
true faith. In this Christian church he daily and abundantly forgives all my sins, and the sins
of all believers, and on the last day he will raise me and all the dead and will grant eternal
life to me and to all who believe in Christ.
This is most certainly true.
There is no way around it Twin, the preaching turns out to be the same. Again, does God need my permission to save me?
There is no way around it Twin, the preaching turns out to be the same. Again, does God need my permission to save me?
Twin wants to straddle the fence between Arminianism and Calvinism, trettep. He wants to maintain, like Arminianism, that people are responsible for rejecting God, even though he believes, like Calvinism, that if God doesn't create faith within a person, they have no choice but to reject.
He sees the inconsistency, but cannot acknowledge it as such because he believes both ideas are scriptural.
If the fundamentalist believed in the extreme horror of eternal torment, they lack the works and the conviction of their belief.
Obviously the extreme horror of what they say they believe in has not sunk in for them to be moved to act with any sense of urgency.
Approaching Severe storms across this nation are handled with greater urgency than the pending fete of those heading to the extreme horror of eternal hell............ Belief with no conviction = dead faith.
I agree. The problem is two doctrines go hand in hand.
1. You are saved if you claim Christ as your savior
2. If you aren't saved you go to hell and burn.
One exalts the one claiming salvation and denigrates the ones they reject. OSAS and ET go hand in hand.
Both are wrong. Neither really motivates anyone to help others, it is an excuse to sit back because God "chose" them and He didn't the other guy. Both miss the reality of the Gospel.
Jesus did not sit back and say I am perfect so I am saved from death, no he exerted himself and went as far as death for us. Now how do we copy that? We are required to be like Him and ..... how?
Do we sit back and say it is ALL in God's hands or do we look at our own hands and use them for God and neighbor.
Twin wants to straddle the fence between Arminianism and Calvinism, trettep. He wants to maintain, like Arminianism, that people are responsible for rejecting God, even though he believes, like Calvinism, that if God doesn't create faith within a person, they have no choice but to reject.
He sees the inconsistency, but cannot acknowledge it as such because he believes both ideas are scriptural.
Yeah some people believe that salvation is entirely of the Lord's but also want believe that salvation is for everyone and not just an elect few. But when you both together it contradicts eternal torment.
I agree. The problem is two doctrines go hand in hand.
1. You are saved if you claim Christ as your savior
2. If you aren't saved you go to hell and burn.
One exalts the one claiming salvation and denigrates the ones they reject. OSAS and ET go hand in hand.
Both are wrong. Neither really motivates anyone to help others, it is an excuse to sit back because God "chose" them and He didn't the other guy. Both miss the reality of the Gospel.
Jesus did not sit back and say I am perfect so I am saved from death, no he exerted himself and went as far as death for us. Now how do we copy that? We are required to be like Him and ..... how?
Do we sit back and say it is ALL in God's hands or do we look at our own hands and use them for God and neighbor.
The Holy Spirit inspires / motivates the believer to spread the Gospel. I don't even know what you mean saying "OSAS" and "ET" is an excuse to sit back. What does that mean?
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