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The proof is in the context. In verses 25-28, Jesus describes two groups of people: those inside the Kingdom, and those weeping outside of the kingdom, nothing else. Then in verse 30, he concludes his speech by once again, describing two groups of people: the last which shall be first, and the first which shall be last. That should be clear to anyone who is HONEST with themselves that the the last which shall be first, and the first which shall be last are the people in verses 25-28. You can either take Luke 13:25-30 for what it says, or you can reject it.
I take it for what it says, but it doesn't say what you think it says. You have jumped into an incorrect conclusion. The people who will feast in the Kingdom arrive from east and west and north and south, but those who are behind the door, will remain behind the door. The two groups are those in the Kingdom, and those behind the door, and those in the Kingdom are/were fists and last. You are trying to connect dots which simply do not connect.
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According to Matthew 20:1-16, BOTH groups join the kingdom, but at different times. BOTH groups (Luke 13:30 + Matt 20:16) are being paid the wage in Matthew.
Matthew says nothing about the second chances for those who died in unbelief. It talks about people who served the Lord. Anyone who claims those people who were 'hired' at 5PM was symbolic for dead sinners, is simply making stuff up.
I take it for what it says, but it doesn't say what you think it says. You have jumped into an incorrect conclusion. The people who will feast in the Kingdom arrive from east and west and north and south, but those who are behind the door, will remain behind the door. The two groups are those in the Kingdom, and those behind the door, and those in the Kingdom are/were fists and last. You are trying to connect dots which simply do not connect.
Matthew says nothing about the second chances for those who died in unbelief. It talks about people who served the Lord. Anyone who claims those people who were 'hired' at 5PM was symbolic for dead sinners, is simply making stuff up.
Well you still are not saying who the first are who are last and more to the point last in what ?
I hope you're kind enough to throw those outside the door a turkey leg or something to those outside the door while you are feasting at the table.
I take it for what it says, but it doesn't say what you think it says. You have jumped into an incorrect conclusion. The people who will feast in the Kingdom arrive from east and west and north and south, but those who are behind the door, will remain behind the door. The two groups are those in the Kingdom, and those behind the door, and those in the Kingdom are/were fists and last. You are trying to connect dots which simply do not connect.
Matthew says nothing about the second chances for those who died in unbelief. It talks about people who served the Lord. Anyone who claims those people who were 'hired' at 5PM was symbolic for dead sinners, is simply making stuff up.
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Originally Posted by pcamps
Well you still are not saying who the first are who are last and more to the point last in what ?
I hope you're kind enough to throw those outside the door a turkey leg or something to those outside the door while you are feasting at the table.
Lol at the turkey leg. You want it both ways. Jesus describes two groups of people in the passage, but then for verse 30, you apply both types of people to one group. That isn't very consistent. Oh well, if you don't agree you don't agree
Luke 13:23-28 is NOT a damnation passage, the salvation of ALL .......
this conclusion ^^^ is the classic example of why it is pointless to embark in a conversation who does so when in 2 Peter 3:16 God clearly stated:
His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Yes ... to conclude that Luke 13:23-38 can possibly result in the reading of salvation of ALL is truly the fulfilling of 2 Peter 3:16
Amen.....
All one can do is shake their head as this is the worse case of twisting and distorting the word of God, my goodness what a total mess !
Twin......, 2 Peter 3:16 is perfect scripture in reference to this false teaching. Universalism definitely seeks out the unstable, ignorant individual keeping them deceive with a false hope and a false peace of mind.
It really does sadden my heart because the heart is so fearful and unstable, hanging on with all their might and will not listen to those God has sent in trying to intervene to release the heart from the deception of this false teaching with its false peace that one would rather go all the way to their own destruction.
It is almost like a repeat of Jeremiah time and day !!!!
Amen.....
All one can do is shake their head as this is the worse case of twisting and distorting the word of God, my goodness what a total mess !
Twin......, 2 Peter 3:16 is perfect scripture in reference to this false teaching. Universalism definitely seeks out the unstable, ignorant individual keeping them deceive with a false hope and a false peace of mind.
It really does sadden my heart because the heart is so fearful and unstable, hanging on with all their might and will not listen to those God has sent in trying to intervene to release the heart from the deception of this false teaching with its false peace that one would rather go all the way to their own destruction.
It is almost like a repeat of Jeremiah time and day !!!!
Blessings
You believe that belief in Universal Reconciliation is the doctrine that causes a fearful heart? A lot people who serve God don't even love God, and are just going threw the motions so God doesn't roast them forever. Why do you think some people rushed to churches when they thought the world was going to end?
You believe that belief in Universal Reconciliation is the doctrine that causes a fearful heart?
Truly, some are afraid or fearful, as they believe God is not generous and merciful in his love.
Yet, others are resentful that ALL will receive the same gift without earning it in this life?
In other words, if you do not earn your salvation with fear and trembling - you will be condemned to hell.
Or you will have no reason to be a good and kindhearted soul, loving your neighbor as yourself.
Faith in Christ speaks to that of exclusiveness, based on a limited period of time.
Whereas, the Faithfulness of Christ speaks to the inclusion of the whole; unlimited by time.
You believe that belief in Universal Reconciliation is the doctrine that causes a fearful heart? A lot people who serve God don't even love God, and are just going threw the motions so God doesn't roast them forever. Why do you think some people rushed to churches when they thought the world was going to end?
No, I did not say Ur causes fear..... I said individuals in whom have a overwhelming fear turn to Ur because of the false promises it gives.
Listen, Sir. Noel, I've been in this forum for a long time and have heard it all, all the arguments UR insist on when it comes to UR philosophy.
I've heard all the testimonies of those who believe in this false teaching how the word of God brought great fear to their lives because of the future judgment, hell, that is going to come upon this world. And, yes, some of our loved ones, friends, etc. will receive because of a life of unbelief. Many people will choose their love for their sin over the love of God because they do not want to believe in Him, nor do they want to serve Him. Read John 3.
Look at all those who come here now and continue in their rejection of Jesus and they want nothing to do with Him !
Yet one one day they will believe everything they had heard was true, yet it will be to late. Just like the parable of the wedding.........
God has spoken to all of us through His Son, His Prophets, many ways warning about the future judgment and the coming wrath of God, due to those who will not believe, receiving eternal damnation because of their rejection of Jesus Christ.
Your judgment of the heart of those who serve God and saying they do not love him and are going through the motions because God is going to roast them is wrong in so many ways! And do you realize you have set yourself at the level of God by proclaiming and judging the heart of the servants of God NOT even a good idea to be doing...... satan did the same thing, hmmmmm
The people who rush to God when it was prophized that the world was going to end was not the believer but those of the world, the unbelievers.
That does show you even the people of the world really do know where to turn when situations are out of their control and is happening, GOD, not universalism. He is the only One, our only hope who can and will help in our time of need. He reigns on the just and the unjust.
The sad part is those of the world usually go back to what the were doing and forget all about the mercy of God being there in their time of need !!!! Yet, there are some that do realize the reality of God and repent and live the rest of their lives serving Him faithfully, amen !!!
Please be careful in the things you speak for our words and thoughts are remembered for they bring life or death in the eyes of God !!!
No, I did not say Ur causes fear..... I said individuals in whom have a overwhelming fear turn to Ur because of the false promises it gives.
Listen, Sir. Noel, I've been in this forum for a long time and have heard it all, all the arguments UR insist on when it comes to UR philosophy.
I've heard all the testimonies of those who believe in this false teaching how the word of God brought great fear to their lives because of the future judgment, hell, that is going to come upon this world. And, yes, some of our loved ones, friends, etc. will receive because of a life of unbelief. Many people will choose their love for their sin over the love of God because they do not want to believe in Him, nor do they want to serve Him. Read John 3.
Look at all those who come here now and continue in their rejection of Jesus and they want nothing to do with Him !
Yet one one day they will believe everything they had heard was true, yet it will be to late. Just like the parable of the wedding.........
God has spoken to all of us through His Son, His Prophets, many ways warning about the future judgment and the coming wrath of God, due to those who will not believe, receiving eternal damnation because of their rejection of Jesus Christ.
Your judgment of the heart of those who serve God and saying they do not love him and are going through the motions because God is going to roast them is wrong in so many ways! And do you realize you have set yourself at the level of God by proclaiming and judging the heart of the servants of God NOT even a good idea to be doing...... satan did the same thing, hmmmmm
The people who rush to God when it was prophized that the world was going to end was not the believer but those of the world, the unbelievers.
That does show you even the people of the world really do know where to turn when situations are out of their control and is happening, GOD, not universalism. He is the only One, our only hope who can and will help in our time of need. He reigns on the just and the unjust.
The sad part is those of the world usually go back to what the were doing and forget all about the mercy of God being there in their time of need !!!! Yet, there are some that do realize the reality of God and repent and live the rest of their lives serving Him faithfully, amen !!!
Please be careful in the things you speak for our words and thoughts are remembered for they bring life or death in the eyes of God !!!
I didn't say everyone serves God only because of fear, I said some. The Bible teaches that, not me Isaiah 29:13. It's as if you just wanted an excuse to compare me to satan; didn't you just finish lecturing me on being careful of the things I say?
What you need to understand is that not everyone believes in UR because of emotion. Some of us actually believe it because it's taught in scripture. I know that might be hard to believe since some religious people are so dogmatic in their traditions that anyone who disagrees with them must be labeled as someone "trusting in their emotions rather than the Bible". In fact, I've heard many people say that they reject UR because they are afraid that if they're wrong God is going to turture them forever; so they believe in eternal torment just to be safe.
Lol at the turkey leg. You want it both ways. Jesus describes two groups of people in the passage, but then for verse 30, you apply both types of people to one group. That isn't very consistent.
It is very consistent with the entire Bible.
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