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"The Rich and the Kingdom of God" story also talks about the first and the last. The rich man was first in this life, but he won't be first in Kingdom of God, if he'll enter at all. Peter, and the apostles gave everything, even their lives, and Jesus said they will sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel, and those who have left their families and professions to serve the Lord will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Will he be the last or does the first will be last and the last be first not apply to him ?. I'm still wondering what Jesus meant by being last, do you know what Jesus meant by it ?
I take it for what it says, but it doesn't say what you think it says. You have jumped into an incorrect conclusion. The people who will feast in the Kingdom arrive from east and west and north and south, but those who are behind the door, will remain behind the door. The two groups are those in the Kingdom, and those behind the door, and those in the Kingdom are/were fists and last. You are trying to connect dots which simply do not connect.
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Originally Posted by Sir. Noel
You want it both ways. Jesus describes two groups of people in the passage, but then for verse 30, you apply both types of people to one group. That isn't very consistent.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
It is very consistent with the entire Bible.
Oh i'm sure that belief in eternal torment is inevitable if you treat Luke 13:25-30 with the same "consistency" that you do the entire Bible. Who are you trying to convince, me or yourself?
Will he be the last or does the first will be last and the last be first not apply to him ?. I'm still wondering what Jesus meant by being last, do you know what Jesus meant by it ?
Larry
I hate the repeat things, so this 7th repetition is the final one. There is no "AVIS preferred customer program" when it comes to eternal life. The thief on the cross, and Peter, and all believers receive the same reward of eternal life. Some people, like the Jewish priests might wonder why a thief gets the same price as them when they are Abrahams's sons, and their works, there is no AVIS programs. All believers receive eternal life. Many Jews and gentiles who have already died in unbelief will never enter, but the book of Romans explains that in the future Israel will believe, and that generation will be saved.
There is an AVIS program when it comes to other rewards though. You must pay attention to context. Peter will sit on a throne, but the thief will not.
Oh i'm sure that belief in eternal torment is inevitable if you treat Luke 13:25-30 with the same "consistency" that you do the entire Bible. Who are you trying to convince, me or yourself?
I am not trying to convince you, I am writing for the sake of those who read these posts. Your version is not in sync with the rest of the Bible, and fails the "verify scripture against scripture" test.
I hate the repeat things, so this 7th repetition is the final one. There is no "AVIS preferred customer program" when it comes to eternal life. The thief on the cross, and Peter, and all believers receive the same reward of eternal life. Some people, like the Jewish priests might wonder why a thief gets the same price as them when they are Abrahams's sons, and their works, there is no AVIS programs. All believers receive eternal life. Many Jews and gentiles who have already died in unbelief will never enter, but the book of Romans explains that in the future Israel will believe, and that generation will be saved.
There is an AVIS program when it comes to other rewards though. You must pay attention to context. Peter will sit on a throne, but the thief will not.
So who were the last Jesus referred to by Jesus and last in what ?. Come on give me some answer, how about the last ones to bow the knee and confess Jesus is Lord before being thrown into the fire in the presence of the lamb and everyone else who agrees with torment, make something up or acknowledge you don't know or won't say because it implicates everything you believe
Luk_14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk_14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk_14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
the ETer wants us to believe that God was not able to handle the costs and finish the work that HE started.
Luk_14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk_14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk_14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
the ETer wants us to believe that God was not able to handle the costs and finish the work that HE started.
He finished what He set up to do, but you see it as unfinished because He did not finish what YOU expected Him to finish.
I am not trying to convince you, I am writing for the sake of those who read these posts. Your version is not in sync with the rest of the Bible, and fails the "verify scripture against scripture" test.
I'm not trying to convince you either, others need to see the inconsistency with ET. You're mixing up "the least, and the greatest" with "the first and the last". Old testament believers that died before Christ resurrection are the Least, and those whose die with Christ after the resurrection are the greatest. That's why John the baptist will be the least in the kingdom because John the baptist is "the greatest among those born of a women." matthew 11:11. But both groups (old and new testament believers) shall enter the kingdom first. Those who die without Christ shall enter last.
Luk_14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk_14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk_14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
the ETer wants us to believe that God was not able to handle the costs and finish the work that HE started.
That is because they do not believe the spoken word of his desire accomplishes that which it is sent out for. Every word God speaks is an investment and his word is invested in us and nothing can stop that investment prospering in us. It is interesting that they believe all prophecy is fulfilled, and if pushed to explain why,they would say that God's never fails, but in the same breathe they reject the idea that his desire spoken cannot be accomplished. Like someone already said on this thread they won't it both ways.
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