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I am still waiting on an answer to my question from Christopher what do you believe if someone dies before they are baptized? Are they still saved? The bible doesn't teach that the only way to paradise is through baptism. Also if they only way to be saved is by baptism for remission of sins what about other churches that dont baptize for remission of sin but as an outward showing. Then are they not going to heaven? If that is what that means than in reality only CofC denominations really do think they are the only ones going to heaven.
the invitation to all sinners by jesus...that invitation, after the age of accountability, is extended over and over. the commandments, both expressed and implied---are ways the bible (NT) teaches---is to be baptized for the remission of sins. contrary to some denominational doctrine, baptism is to wash away our sins. new testament baptism was never merely an oridance used to identify with a denomination. the word denomination means "a part of", this, in and of itself, is a foriegn idea to scripture. the church is never described as a part; it is a whole. the church, the bride of christ, has outlined only one way to be baptized. baptism has only one purpose. it is to wash away sins. because baptism is a part of putting us into a right or saved relationship with christ, one must complete all of the acts that put us into that saving relationship. to do less, results in being unsaved---condemned. only christians go to heaven...the saved. christ desires all to be saved. however, obviously, all will not accept the invitation. christs' mission is to do the will of the father which is in heaven. the father desires for all men to be saved, even though all men will not, as they are their own free will agents. in reality, it will be god who judges all; not man. if you have done what the new testament teaches in the new testament church, and you live a life of christian graces, observing the commandments of new testament christianity, you can expect the promise of salvation.
Yes I attend church services regularly and am a youth leader in church. I was a member of a Church of Christ until I started reading and studying the bible on my own and let God lead me in my understanding of the scripture. I left the Church of Christ that I was a member of for 2 years and currently attend various churches. As far as being saved if you die before your baptized how is that possible when you previously said that you are only saved from water baptism? You see I do agree that it is what is in the heart of a person. I think all Christians should want to be baptized and I think most do, however your saved from the moment that you call upon the name of the lord and ask for forgiveness and confess him. The baptism is the outward showing of you burying your sins and becoming a new man. You have to understand I really don't believe that baptism is going to save me I believe Jesus shedding his blood for me on Calvary is what saved me as it gave me the everlasting opportunity to live with him. As far as coming into contact with the blood I feel we come into contact with the blood when we believe, repent, and confess the lord as our savior. I still attended the CofC occasionally but don't go there regularly.
I want to add something. I believe in the power of prayer and believe that if God wants to heal someone, He can. But I definitely believe when He does, He does it...not through someone else.
I do not believe every little thing is a miracle as you do, which is ok, deerdog. I am glad you are happy with believing that way.
Just please don't say I don't have faith just because I don't believe true miracles happen today, or at least not the way you believe it.
Enjoy your miracles. Love God. Don't worry so much that I don't think the sun rising is a miracle. It's all good.
to understand why miracles are not performed today necessarily leads one back to the scripture and the initial primary need for miracles. miracles were used primarily for teaching purposes: not for healing or showing off. healing of an individual's infirmity was one quick way to get attention and to teach. of course, it was wonderful for those who were healed, but it was secondary to the greater good---teaching of the word. today, we use the word miracle rather loosely. for an act to be defined as a biblical miracle, certain qualities and actions must be present in the miracle. the bible sets these qualifications out in each miracle performed in the scripture. today, if you pay close attention, those who claim to perform miracles do so with lapses of time. the miracles in the scripture always outlined specific instructions, and they were always fulfilled immediately after the action: not over time. careful study of miracles in the bible and those alleged today will help set aright those who believe we remain in an age of miracles.
No misunderstanding here Church of Christ only in heaven. Just hope and pray for those that wanna be saved and after they ask for forgiveness and they confess they dont have a heart attack on the way to the water cause no matter there heart they are not saved according to your beliefs. And im not stuck on anything just trying to understand your belief.
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Originally Posted by DNick
Are you implying that only the CofC baptizes for the forgiveness of sin?
Cause if you are, that's not true. The RCC and I''m pretty positive that the Orthodox churches do also.
This is exactly what I was going to say. Deerdog you're wrong in your assumption that only the Church of Christ baptized for remission of sins. Not only does the Catholic church, but I believe the Christian churches do as well, and also many other non-denom churches.
So yes, you misunderstand and are incorrect that we believe only the Church of Christ will be in heaven.
Thanks Guys I am so glad I was led here by Google, I had a guy install me a new mail box today and he invited me to his church 'Church Of Christ' I told him I may consider coming sometimes, he said he would have the pastor send me a bulletin from the church, well somehow he and the pastor got together and delivered the bulletin to my home this afternoon. Thank God we live in America where we (So far) can worship as we please, if everything you guys say about this church is true I don't think I will be going any way soon. Thanks
You really do need to read all of the posts, or talk to the guy you're talking about before you base your decision off a few people who have some kind of grudge against the Church of Christ.
Yes I attend church services regularly and am a youth leader in church. I was a member of a Church of Christ until I started reading and studying the bible on my own and let God lead me in my understanding of the scripture. I left the Church of Christ that I was a member of for 2 years and currently attend various churches. As far as being saved if you die before your baptized how is that possible when you previously said that you are only saved from water baptism?
The water does not save you. Christ's blood does. We believe if you are on your way to be baptized and you die, God knows your heart and will show mercy. Don't you?
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You see I do agree that it is what is in the heart of a person. I think all Christians should want to be baptized and I think most do, however your saved from the moment that you call upon the name of the lord and ask for forgiveness and confess him.
Show scriptures for each of these. I bet you won't find anywhere that you have to ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. What you will find, when salvation is talked about in the NT, is that you have to believe, repent, confess, be baptized, and remain faithful. I can show you scripture for all five of these. If you want to do what the whole bible says, you'll do all 5. Not just pick and choose.
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The baptism is the outward showing of you burying your sins and becoming a new man.
Yet, you think one is saved before becoming a new man?
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You have to understand I really don't believe that baptism is going to save me I believe Jesus shedding his blood for me on Calvary is what saved me as it gave me the everlasting opportunity to live with him.
That is exactly what we believe too, deerdog.
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As far as coming into contact with the blood I feel we come into contact with the blood when we believe, repent, and confess the lord as our savior. I still attended the CofC occasionally but don't go there regularly.
Ok, that's what you feel, but can you back it up with scripture? Because the only scripture I know of that says we come into contact with Christ's death (His shed blood) is Romans 6:4, that says we come into contact with it through baptism. Can you show me more?
Why is it you believe Christ's blood saves you, but then you also believe you must believe, repent, and confess....BUT you stop short of baptism? You believe you must comply with these other commands in order to be saved, but not baptism...I just don't get it.
**I posted this under another thread a while back. I think it needs to be said here.
For all those that do not believe baptism is necessary, please take each verse below, and explain to me how I am wrong with my interpretation of it. Thank you.
Who is saved?
Mark 16:16...He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
What saves us?
I Peter 3:21...The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
How do we call on the name of the Lord?
Acts 22:16...And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
How do we come into contact with Jesus' death, and walk in a new life?
Romans 6:4...Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
How do we receive remission of sins?
Acts 2:38...Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22:16...And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
How do we join the one body of Christ?
1 Cor 12:12-13...For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
How do we put on Christ? Gal 3:27...For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
baptism is the outward expression of an inward faith. it is the last operative action completed by the believer that puts the believer into a saved position in the lord and his church. baptism is for the washing away of our sins. upon being baptized, we have become new the bible says. the bible equates the newly baptized to babes...particularly babes in christ. this anology is meant to show us that, as new christians, we are babes who are to grow in the strength and knowledge of the lord. baptism begins our complete journey and walk w/ the lord in his church. the bible says that becoming a christian is so simple that even a fool could not fail to understand the process. the hearer must hear the gospel (good news), he must believe that good news, he must be convicted that he needs salvation and that he must repent of his sins, he must confess that jesus christ is lord, and then he must follow christ in baptism for the remission of sins. after being raised from baptism as a new creature, he begins his walk in the light of christ. on that walk, he gains more and more knowledge and applies this knowledge to himself and to others in the service of the kingdom of christ. it is simple to become a christian; however, it is difficult to walk the path. you must follow the pattern in the new testament: not your own way. the keys to his kingdom are free to open the door. you just have to have the right keys and the right lock. the bible says to work out your own salvation with fear (respect) and trembling (care).
And why exactly are you telling Me this? I also believe in baptism for the forgiveness of sin
Yes I attend church services regularly and am a youth leader in church. I was a member of a Church of Christ until I started reading and studying the bible on my own and let God lead me in my understanding of the scripture. I left the Church of Christ that I was a member of for 2 years and currently attend various churches. As far as being saved if you die before your baptized how is that possible when you previously said that you are only saved from water baptism? You see I do agree that it is what is in the heart of a person. I think all Christians should want to be baptized and I think most do, however your saved from the moment that you call upon the name of the lord and ask for forgiveness and confess him. The baptism is the outward showing of you burying your sins and becoming a new man. You have to understand I really don't believe that baptism is going to save me I believe Jesus shedding his blood for me on Calvary is what saved me as it gave me the everlasting opportunity to live with him. As far as coming into contact with the blood I feel we come into contact with the blood when we believe, repent, and confess the lord as our savior. I still attended the CofC occasionally but don't go there regularly.
As I have said before, you are not saved before you are baptized. You said you think all Christians should want to be baptized. First of all, you are not a Christian before baptism because the bible says you are a new man after baptism (2 Cor. 5:17 -"in Christ"). How do we get in Christ (Gal. 3:27 - "baptism"). Yes, there are alot of people who are so sincere and caring and are doing alot of good things but it's vain because they have not obeyed the gospel of Christ. The gospel is what makes one a Christian because not only have they been baptized but b4 that they heard the word, believed it, repented of their sins, and confessed Christ to be the Son of God. You are not saved the moment you call upon the name of the Lord and ask for forgiveness, unless you do it just like Paul did. He didn't have to pray for forgiveness. His sins were forgiven when he was baptized (Acts 22:16). You call on the name of the Lord through obedience not literally saying Lord save me or through prayer because the bible says "not everyone that says unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven (Matt. 7:21). You have to do something. Why was Paul baptized? Because it was and still is a commandment. It's not an option or a suggestion. Read Acts 10:47-48. They didn't have a choice of whether they wanted to be baptized or not because they were "commanded" to be baptized. A commandment is something you are required to do. It is essential or necessary. An ultimatum.
grobangel and 4 beanie I respect that you all dont believe you all are the only ones going to heaven. Let me ask one question though you all do believe that if your baptism is for remission of sin then your saved and going to heaven. Correct me if im wrong. Now what about all the other Christians that wasn't baptized for the remission of sins are they saved. When I asked one of my deacons at my CofC that I attend he couldn't answer it. In reality if your only saved after your baptized for remission of sin then CofC really does believe they are the only ones going to heaven.
sorry i've been traveling and away from the computer. I am not aware of what reasons other churches baptize, so I can't say who is saved. I wouldn't who I think is saved that is God's call. He knows what's in a person heart and how much they study his word to search out the correct way of salvation. Why is there the scripture that says to being baptized for the remission of sins if that's not what it meant
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the miracle...understanding the word
