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Padgett2,
You are (logically) incorrect that TRUTH is perception. TRUTH is just that: What actually IS.
We may have differing opinions of what is, but what is, IS! We may not undertand and we may interpret what IS, but we cannot change what is.
For example: Something happens, say, a car accident. Anyone who witnesses it may have a different account of the accident. But, the TRUTH is, the accident occured only one way. Reality is what happens. Our interpretation of that reality is not TRUTH. TRUTH is what happened in that reality. If we have all different truths then it follows that we would have to have different realities. We do not. We live in one world & one reality. The definition of TRUTH is not subjective. It is objective. If you do not understand Alpha's statement, then you cannot understand logic. If you do not understand logic, you cannot debate. I think you can understand logic & debate, but you would have to admit that the definition of TRUTH is "what actually happened in a single reality - one that many witnesses can have interpretations of.
Don't get me wrong.. the lds's have explained it very well.. which is why I was asking if the OP hadn't already been answered.. on multiple pages.
Problem is we answer a question. But if the critics don't like what they hear, they ask the same question a different way, attempting to get the answer they want. Either that, so someone new comes along without reading all 800+ posts (I can't blame them), and posts the same accusation that was answered eons ago. And to be fair, we aren't 100% homogeneous as Mormons. We may tend to interpret things slightly differently due to our human natures as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiram
Question to Mormons
If Jesus told the Samarian woman that true worshippers would worship God in spirit and in truth, then why are you still worshiping in a temple?
John 4:20-24 "Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you [Jews] say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. "God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 2:19-21 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
Acts 17:24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
The temple was destroyed by the Roman legions in 70 AD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GENO-777
Why do you care??? We will all find out who is right real soon.
Proverbs 16:30 He winks his eye to devise perverse things; He purses his lips [and] brings about evil.
I do care, that is why I asked you. Please answer!
WELL FIRST OFF ID LIKE TO SAY I ADMIRE EVERYONES DRIVE TO STAND UP FOR YOUR BELEIFS ENTIRELY BUT THE THING ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAT BASH MORMONS IS THAT THEY ALWAYS HAVE THEIR OWN WAY OF INTERPRETTING THE CHURCH AND WHAT " THEY THINK" WE BELEIVE IN! ITS NEVER TRUE INFORMATION, AND IF THEY DID TRUELY KNOW WHAT WE BELIEVE THEY WOULD SEE OUR LOVE FOR GOD AND SEE THE TRUTH IN ALL WE STRIVE FOR.
THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A MOMENT... YOU CONSTANTLY SEE OTHER RELIGIONS BASHING AND CRITIQUING LATTER DAY SAINTS, BUT WHEN DO YOU SEE LATTER DAY SAINTS EVER BASHING ANY OTHER RELIGION? NEVER! WE DONT BELIEVE IN CRITISIZM WE ONLY BELIEVE IN STANDING UP FOR OUR FAITH WHEN ASKED UPON. WE ALWAYS SAY "WE BELEIVE" RATHER THEN CONTRIDICT WHAT OTHERS SAY LIKE THEY DO TO US.
-unlike the Catholics who believe in baptising new born babies
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Didn't you just make a contradiction? The reason you do not like to contradict anyone is because of a "lack of knowledge." Only those that have the truth can rebuke and boldly stand for "truth."
In the Mormon's quest to suppress the truth, they will bring many down with them. God gives us as bondservants of Christ the right to judge good from evil. We are set free in His knowledge.
Warnings to those who hate Rebuke
Proverbs 11:14, "They that have no guidance fall like leaves: but in much counsel there is safety."
Proverbs 12:1,"Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is a fool."
Proverbs 13:1, "A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke."
Proverbs 27:5, "Open rebuke is better than secret love."
Ecclesiastes 7:5, "It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools."
I cannot prove they can, but you cannot prove they can't. hmmmmm. Sound familiar? That parallels something, but I, hmmmm cannot put my finger on it.
I think I understand your parable. There is no truth. Pilate could also not understand truth.
John 18: 37-38 Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say [rightly] that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?"
Only those that have the truth can rebuke and boldly stand for "truth."
In the Mormon's quest to suppress the truth, they will bring many down with them. God gives us as bondservants of Christ the right to judge good from evil. We are set free in His knowledge
I therefore rebuke you Hiram. We have the truth and you don't (should I thumb my nose at you too?)
Oops, I just met your criteria for those who have the truth. Dang, we have to start over because we both claim to have the truth. No wonder this thread has more than 890 posts.
In the Mormon's quest to suppress the truth, they will bring many down with them. God gives us as bondservants of Christ the right to judge good from evil. We are set free in His knowledge.
i'm sorry to hear that you think our goal is to suppress the truth. you can please some people all of the time, all people some of the time... y'all know the rest.
anyway, we try to do the exact opposite. we are taught in sunday school of all places to go look for ourselves. we are taught to ask the questions. it might seem strange to some, but wondering if God really, really exists, does not damn you to hell. He in fact wants to prove it to you, on a personal level. you need to ask those questions in order to find out. we teach people to go look for them.
I am sorry that I am so tardy in my responses. I am fairly consumed with work, family, community, and church activities!
I have introduced the 9th article of faith which states that we (LDS) believe in modern day revelation. Birdy and I have conducted most of this conversation, which has centered around Joseph Smith's inspired version of the Bible (which by the way is not the official LDS Bible). Birdy has objected to any one changing the text of Holy writ, saying that it is like changing Pi--which as you know can't be done.
The Pi analogy in my opinion does not hold weight. Unlike a number, language is imprecise and nuanced and can change meaning over time. The language of the scriptures is imprecise because our language and our understanding is imperfect. I would like to make a few points regarding the prophets.
The Lord has always called prophets in every age--that is His modus operandi, as it were.
Paul says that the church is built upon the foundation of prophets, and the Lord would continue to call prophets and others for the work of the ministry until we are all in the unity of the faith.
For the most part, the world rejects the prophets. Even the kings of Israel spent most of their time trying to kill the prophets. The children of Israel rejected the greatest of all, even the Lord Himself.
Dead prophets always appeal to people more than living prophets--who are very inconvenient.
The scriptures are the works of past prophets but are often misinterpreted. The Jews loved the scriptures and studied them incessantly, but when the word of prophecy was fulfilled before their very eyes they rejected it because of false traditions, the philosophy of men, false pastors, and misinterpretation of the word of God. They clung to the law of Moses and refused to listen to anything else.
I must go but there is so much more I must say. Alas it must be later.
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Why these Temples?
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